2

IN the prelude to Middlemarch, George Elliot lamented the unfulfilled lives of talented women:


33

Some have felt that these blundering lives are due to the inconvenient indefiniteness with which the Supreme Power has fashioned the natures of women; if there were one level of feminine incompetence as strict as the ability to count three and no more, the social lot of women might be treated with scientific certitude.


15

Eliot goes on to discount the idea of innate limitation, but while she wrote in 1872, the leaders of European anthropometry were trying to measure "with scientific certitude" the inferiority of women. Anthropometry, or measurement of the human body, is not so fashionable a field these days, but it dominated the human sciences for much of the nineteenth century and remained popular until intelligence testing replaced skull measurement as a favored device for making invidious comparisons among races, classes, and sexes. Crainometry, or meaurement of the skull, commanded the most attention and respect. Its unquestioned leader, Paul Broca (1824-80), professor of clinical surgery at the Faculty of Medicine in Paris, gathered a school of disciples and imitators around himself. Their work, so meticulous and apparently irrefutable, exerted great influence and won high esteem as a jewel of nineteenth-century science.


26

Broca's work seemed particularly invulnerable to refutation. Had he not measured with the most scrupulous care and accuracy? (Indeed, he had. I have the greatest respect for Broca's meticulous procedure. His numbers are sound. But science is an inferential exercise, not a catalog of facts. Numbers, by themselves, specify nothing. All depends upon what you do with them.) Broca depicted himself as an apostle of objectivity, a man who bowed before facts and cast aside superstition and sentimentality. He declared that "there is no faith, however respectable, no interest, however legitimate, which must not accommodate itself to the progress of human knowledge and bend before truth." Women, like it or not, had smaller brains than men and, therefore, could not equal them in intelligence. This fact, Broca argued, may reinforce a common prejudice in male society, but it is also a scientific truth. L. Manouvrier, a black sheep in Broca's fold, rejected the inferiority of women and wrote with feeling about the burden imposed upon them by Broca's numbers:


22

Women displayed their talents and their diplomas. They also invoked philosophical authorities. But they were opposed by numbers unknown to Condorcer or to John Stuart Mill. These numbers fell upon poor women like a sledge hammer, and they were accompanied by commentaries and sarcasms more ferocious than the most misogynist imprecations of certain church fathers. The theologians had asked if women had a soul. Several centuries later, some scientists were ready to refuse them a human intelligence.


26

Broca's argument rested upon two sets of data: the larger brains of men in modern societies, and a supposed increase in male superiority through time. His most extensive data came from autopsies performed personally in four Parisian hospitals. For 292 male brains, he calculated an average weight of 1,325 grams; 140 female brains averaged 1,144 grams for a difference of 181 grams, or 14 percent of the male weight. Broca understood, of course, that part of this difference could be attributed to the greater height of males. Yet he made no attempt to measure the effect of size alone and actually stated that it cannot account for the entire difference because we know, a priori, that women are not as intelligent as men (a premise that the data were supposed to test, not rest upon):


40

We might ask if the small size of the female brain depends exclusively upon the small size of her body. Tiedemann has proposed this explanation. But we must not forget that women are, on the average, a little less intelligent than men, a difference which we should not exaggerate but which is, nonetheless, real. We are therefore permitted to suppose that the relatively small size of the female brain depends in part upon her physical inferiority and in part upon her intellectual inferiority.


7

In 1873, the year after Eliot published Middlemarch, Broca measured the cranial capacities of prehistoric skulls from L'Homme Mort cave. Here he found a difference of only 99.5 cubic centimeters between males and females, while modern populations range from 129.5 to 220.7. Topinard, Broca's chief disciple, explained the increasing discrepancy through time as a result of differing evolutionary pressures upon dominant men and passive women:


24

The man who fights for two or more in the struggle for existence, who has all the responsibility, and the cares of tomorrow, who is constantly active in combating the environment and human rivals, needs more brain than the woman whom he must protect and nourish, the sedentary woman, lacking any interior occupations, whose role is to raise children, love, and be passive.


8

In 1879, Gustave Le Bon, chief misogynist of Broca's school, used these data to publish what must be the most vicious attack upon women in modern scientific literature (no one can top Aristotle). I do not claim his views were representative of Broca's school, but they were published in France's most respected anthropological journal. Le Bon concluded:


27

In the most intelligent races, as among the Parisians, there are a large number of women whose brains are closer in size to those of gorillas than to the most developed male brains. This inferiority is so obvious that no one can contest it for a moment; only its degree is worth discussion. All psychologists who have studied the intelligence of women, as well as poets and novelists, recognize today that they represent the most inferior forms of human evolution and that they are closer to children and savages than to an adult, civilized man. They excel in fickleness, inconstancy, absence of thought and logic, and incapacity to reason. Without doubt there exist some distinguished women, very superior to the average man, but they are as exceptional as the birth of any monstrosity, as, for example, of a gorilla with two heads; consequently, we may neglect them entirely.


2

Nor did Le Bon shrink from the social implications of his views. He was horrified by the proposal of some American reformers to grant women higher education on the same basis as men:


16

A desire to give them the same education, and, as a consequence, to propose the same goals for them, is a dangerous chimera... The day when, misunderstanding the inferior occupations which nature has given her, women leave the home and take part in our battles: on this day, a social revolution will begin, and everything that maintains the sacred ties of the family will disappear.


4

Sound familiar?


8

I have reexamined Broca's data, the basis for all this derivative pronouncement, and I find his numbers sound but his interpretation ill-founded, to say the least. The data supporting his claim for increased difference through time can be easily dismissed. Broca based his contention on the samples from L'Homme Mort alone--only seven male and six female skulls in all. Never have so little data yielded such far ranging conclusions.


7

In 1888, Topinard published Broca's more extensive data on the Parisian hospitals. Since Broca recorded height and age as well as brain size, we may use modern statistics to remove their effect. Brain weight decreases with age, and Broca's women were, on average, considerably older than his men. Brain weight increases with height, and his average man was almost half a foot taller than his average woman. I used multiple regression, a technique that allowed me to assess simultaneously the influence of height and age upon brain size. In an analysis of the data for women, I found that, at average male height and age, a woman's brain would weight 1,212 grams. Correction for height and age reduces Broca's measured difference of 181 grams by more than a third, to 113 grams.


5

I don't know what to make of this remaining difference because I cannot assess other factors known to influence brain size in a major way. Cause of death has an important effect: degenerative disease often entails a substantial diminution of brain size. (This effect is separate from the decrease attributed to age alone.) Eugene Schreider, also working with Broca's data, found that men killed in accidents had brains weighing, on average, 60 grams more than men dying of infectious diseases. The best modern data I can find (from American hospitals) records a full 100-gram difference between death by degenerative arteriosclerosis and by violence or accident. Since so many of Broca's subjects were elderly women, we may assume that lengthy degenerative disease was more common among them than among the men.


2

More importantly, modern students of brain size still have not agreed on a proper measure for eliminating the powerful effect of body size. Height is partly adequate, but men and women of the same height do not share the same body build. Weight is even worse than height, because most of its variation reflects nutrition rather than intrinsic size--fat versus skinny exerts little influence upon the brain. Manouvrier took up this subject in the 1880s and argued that muscular mass and force should be used. He tried to measure this elusive property in various ways and found a marked difference in favor of men, even in men and women of the same height. When he corrected for what he called "sexual mass," women actually came out slightly ahead in brain size.


11

Thus, the corrected 113-gram difference is surely too large; the true figure is probably close to zero and may as well favor women as men. And 113 grams, by the way, is exactly the average difference betwen a 5 foot 4 inch and a 6 foot 4 inch male in Broca's data. We would not (especially us short folks) want to ascribe greater intelligence to tall men. In short, who knows what to do with Broca's data? They certainly don't permit any confident claim that men have bigger brains than women.


7

To appreciate the social role of Broca and his school, we must recognize that his statements about the brains of women do not reflect an isolated prejudice toward a single disadvantaged group. They must be weighed in the context of a general theory that supported contemporary social distinctions as biologically ordained. Women, blacks, and poor people suffered the same disparagement, but women bore the brunt of Broca's argument because he had easier access to data on women's brains. Women were singularly denigrated but they also stood as surrogates for other disenfranchised groups. As one of Broca's disciples wrote in 1881: "Men of the black races have a brain scarcely heavier than that of white woman." This juxtaposition extended into many other realms of anthropological argument, particularly to claims that, anatomically and emotionally, both women and blacks were like white children--and that white children, by the theory of recapitulation, represented an ancestral (primitive) adult stage of human evolution. I do not regard as empty rhetoric the claim that women's battles are for all of us.


9

Maria Montessori did not confine her activities to educational reform for young children. She lectured on anthropology for several years at the University of Rome, and wrote an influential book entitled Pedagogical Anthropology (English edition, 1913). Montessori was no egalitarian. She supported most of Broca's work and the theory of innate criminality proposed by her compatriot Cesare Lombroso. She measured the circumference of children's heads in her schools and inferred that that the best prospects had bigger brains. But she had no use for Broca's conclusions about women. She discussed Monouvrier's work at length and made much of his tentative claim that women, after proper correction of the data, had slightly larger brains than men. Women, she concluded, were intellectually superior, but men had prevailed heretofore by dint of physical force. Since technology has abolished force as an instrument of power, the era of women may soon be upon us: "In such an epoch there will really be superior human beings, there will really be men strong in morality and in sentiment. Perhaps in this way the reign of women is approaching, when the enigma of her anthropological superiority will be deciphered. Woman was always the custodian of human sentiment, morality and honor."


1

This represents one possible antidote to "scientific" claims for the constitutional inferiority of certain groups. One may affirm the validity of biological distinctions but argue that the data have been misinterpreted by prejudiced men with a stake in the outcome, and that disadvantaged groups are truly superior. In recent years, Elaine Morgan has followed this strategy in her Descent of Woman, a speculative reconstruction of human prehistory from the woman's point of view--and as farcical as more famous tall tales by and for men.


5

I prefer another strategy. Montessori and Morgan followed Broca's philosophy to reach a more congenial conclusion. I would rather label the whole enterprise of setting a biological value upon groups for what it is: irrelevant and highly injurious. George Eliot well appreciated the special tragedy that biological labeling imposed upon members of the disadvantaged groups. She expressed it for people like herself--women of extraordinary talent. I would apply it more widely--not only to those whose dreams are flouted but also to those who never realized that they may dream--but I cannot match her prose. In conclusion, then, the rest of Eliot's prelude to Middlemarch:


4

The limits of variation are really much wider than anyone would imagine from the sameness of women's coiffure and the favorite love stories in prose and verse. Here and there a cygnet is reared uneasily among the ducklings in the brown pond, and never finds the living stream in fellowship with its own oary-footed kind. Here and there is born a Saint Theresa, foundress of nothing, whose loving heartbeats and sobs after an unattained goodness tremble off and are dispersed among hindrances instead of centering in some long-recognizable deed.

Posted by nstearns on October 19, 2007
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nstearns on paragraph 2:

Interesting…So, is she saying there is some level of feminine incompetence, it’s just not easy to define? Or is it ironic? We can’t define it because it isn’t there?

October 19, 2007 10:45 am
Lauren :

The numbers referred to are the actual measurements of brain size. Even though women proved over and over that they were intelligent, they could not get past the prejudices that men had against them simply because of the smaller size of their skulls.

January 16, 2009 9:03 am

[...] I want to look at Stephen Jay Gould’s Women’s Brains…You’ll check out my new blog–AP Texts–and as you’re reading. Please [...]

October 23, 2007 10:08 am
TIffany :

I believe that ould is being sacastic about Brocas outdated and not very well done experminet that men are supierior to women, Brocas finding were nothing but a fallicey called begging the question!!!!!!

October 6, 2009 7:59 pm
Sarah Siddiqui on paragraph 3:

This seems very bias.How could a man say “Women, like it or not, ahd smaller brains than men and, therefore, could not equal them in intelligence.” This is prejudice in male society.

October 23, 2007 11:26 am
Katie on paragraph 3:

I think it was so ridiculous for them to judge the intelligence of a person based on the size of their head. Just because a person is smalled does not mean that they are less intelligent. There’s even a tv show today where 8 year olds are smarter than the adults that they are competing against. I’m glad that they pointed out that just because women have a smaller cranium doesn’t mean that they are not smart, it really bothers me that anyone could really logically think that. They must have been really close minded. Oh, and i don’t mean to sound silly, but there’s a spelling error in this paragraph and that bothers me slightly.

October 23, 2007 11:26 am
MolllyG on paragraph 3:

What an amusing scientific study! I find it fascinating that society, and thus the scientific community, has changed so much in just over 150 years. If any experiment of this sort had been even HINTED at in the past 50 years, the hinter would be ridiculed and ostracized. In the past 50 years prior there would hvae been some concerned grumbling, and 50 years before that, this experiment actually existed.

October 23, 2007 11:27 am
MolllyG on paragraph 4:

WHAT???

October 23, 2007 11:28 am
Ashley Ho :

Yeah…height definitely does not have anything to do with the size of certain bodies (in this focus, the brain). I mean –>everybody

October 23, 2007 11:37 am
Sarah Siddiqui on paragraph 6:

I dont think the size of the brain depends on the intelligence level as well as phsycial inferiority.

October 23, 2007 11:28 am
MolllyG on paragraph 6:

I find it ridiculous that these assumptions were considered scientific fact and truth. How could one trust an experiment with so many holes inside of it, even disregarding the subject matter?

October 23, 2007 11:30 am
Lucy on paragraph 6:

I guess this means that there is no conclusive data about how much height and intelligence individually affect brain size?

October 23, 2007 11:30 am
Ashley Ho on paragraph 4:

I wonder how much ridicule Manouvrier had to suffer through since he was a male supporting the idea that women were not inferior in intelligence…
What happened to this “black sheep” of Broca?

October 23, 2007 11:31 am
Sarah Siddiqui on paragraph 8:

Is this true? Society really has categorized men and women. Men are the strong, responsbile one in the family who bring “bacon to the table.” While women roles are to rasie the children, and have love and be passive. This shouldnt define the average American family, but yet is it going on.

October 23, 2007 11:32 am
Katie on paragraph 4:

It really makes me mad that someone could be so ignorant to think that women aren’t intelligent. I mean come on, there are clearly more women than me attending college, more women than men in my AP courses, and more women than men trying to learn new things. It may be because we are always trying to prove ourselves against men but it is just something that’s true in our world. I am pleased though to see that there is someone sane in this essay that realizes that.

October 23, 2007 11:32 am
Christina Diorio :

It’s important to note that Broca was alive and conducted his experiments in the 1800’s, when women were supressed and had no way to show and prove their intelligence. Therefore Broca’s experiment made complete sense to the public, as it simply reaffirmed their strongly held beliefs. Very few would have questioned his facts or the methods from which he drew his conclusions.

January 5, 2010 11:44 am
Alex Breaden on paragraph 3:

I find the reception of Broca’s work to be quite hilarious in that despite his claim holding no evidence besides the specific sizes of brains, it was viewed as being very valid in its determining that men are intellectually superior to women.

October 23, 2007 11:33 am
Oliver Portacio on paragraph 10:

This entire paragraph is a steaming pile of lies. It find it absolutely disgusting that Le Bon willingly published his arrogant and bigoted opinion as scientific fact. “This inferiority is so obvious that no one can contest it for a moment; only its degree is worth disussion.” He is essentially claiming that this “fact” is so indisputable, that no scientific study need be made in order to prove it.

October 23, 2007 11:34 am
MolllyG on paragraph 10:

One must wonder at the abnormality of Le Bon’s intelligence — however, that would be considering his mutant LACK of intelligence. The sheer replacement of fact with assumptions is astounding in this experiment, that was “regarded as science.”
However, one also must wonder women could have fought back against this. How coudl they conduct experiments against it? It would be disregarded as ridden with unintelligent mistakes. A man would hvae to help point out the obvious fallacies in the experiment, and thus disprove it.

October 23, 2007 11:34 am
Sarah Siddiqui on paragraph 11:

Wow, i can not believe the stuff that they say about women. THey are more related to gorillas and children then the average male. It just stunned me that people thought this way just because of the size of peoples brain.

October 23, 2007 11:35 am
Katie on paragraph 6:

it bothers me that someone would suppose that their research might be faulty but not even investigate it. ugh. well i guess he just wanted to look more intelligent by any means possible.

October 23, 2007 11:35 am
Lucy on paragraph 13:

Many inferences are being made in this piece without conclusive data. What i get from it is that while it is possible that women have smaller cranial capacity than men, that the correlation is still to be made between capacity and intelligence. Without that correlation, no reasonable inferences about intelligence can be made

October 23, 2007 11:36 am
Emily Ross on paragraph 4:

“The theologians had asked if women had a soul. Several centuries later, some scientists were ready to refuse them a human intelligence.” Although women displayed signs of intelligence and talent, they were still questioned by theologians- I found this argument, the question of whether women had a soul, interesting, because without women human existance would cease to exist.

October 23, 2007 11:36 am
Sarah Round on paragraph 3:

Paul Broca provides this assertion from his study of intelligence of both gender’s brains, “Women, like it or not, had smaller brains than men and, therefore, could not equal them in intelligence.” Broca stated a “fact” he had aquired though a study to persuade the nation of his belief, that biologically men were more intelligent then women Modern society has refuted this statement and Stephen Jay Gould adds that science is not merely calculations it is observations as well. To provide a more developed assertion and to convince an audience from a later time period Broca should have provided examples. It is highly likely that during his time the reader of his works would have accepted this view without question. His readership would have been like-minded men.

October 23, 2007 11:37 am
MolllyG on paragraph 14:

How amusing! The feminist movement was indeed a “social revolution” and the definition of family (and the roles within it) changed drastically.
So to some extent, Le Bon predicted correctly, but was entirely incorrect in his reasoning.

October 23, 2007 11:38 am
Sarah Siddiqui on paragraph 4:

what..i am truly saying this article is ridiculous

October 23, 2007 11:38 am
Katie on paragraph 11:

It’s appalling how ignorant this one guy must be. First he makes the outlandish claim that all whites are more intelligent that people of color and then he goes on to insult women to the highest degree. Comparing women to monkeys is not the way to a girls heart. someone should remind him of that.

October 23, 2007 11:39 am
Justin Hinkley :

It’s important to note that he can hardly be “ignorant,” he is quite educated to have been published in a respected journal. Ignorance is only a valid insult when knowledge is available and he does not take it. He also does not say women are more “closely related” to gorillas than men, simply that their intelligence is. His point is bad enough that there is no need to caricature it.

October 25, 2007 11:00 am
Oliver Portacio on paragraph 6:

Absolutely unbelievable. I am completely amzed that this experiment was accepted by the scientific community despite its gaping holes and lack of throughness.

October 23, 2007 11:39 am
Thomas Brown on paragraph 9:

The widespread corruption of sexism evident in this passage shows the extent to which such prejudiced thinking prevents mankind from moving forward. Instead of the two sexes working together, building off of each others’ strengths, and heading towards a brighter future, man is oppressing the female intellect. They are criticizing women by essentially calling them a necessary dependency (than the woman whom he must protect and nourish, the sedentary woman, lacking any interior occupations, whose role is to raise children, love, and be passive).

October 23, 2007 11:39 am
Katie on paragraph 13:

like lucy said, there are many things that are just being thrown around and they have no evidence of any of it. that’s what makes me the most angry, they should stop being so rude to women when they have to evidence for what they’re talking about.

October 23, 2007 11:40 am
Valerie Benson on paragraph 8:

I found it interesting that a man who thinks so highly of his gender, could forget that he was raised by a woman. In this quote, Broca suggested that it was the womens’ job to raise the next generation with “love.” Yet he also says that a husband “must protect and nourish,” therefore implying that women have an inability to care for themselves. This demonstrates that he beliefs that women need to be treated as children as well. The unintentional situational irony is important because while women raise the children, who will one day grow up to be men and women, they somehow “need” to be nourished and fed like children themselves. How could women be so dependent on men, when they have the huge responsibility of raising children?

October 23, 2007 11:40 am
Sharon on paragraph 7:

Gould shows how ironic and ridiculous it is that Broca tested a hypothesis with skull sizes, while assuming that his hypothesis is a fact by quoting him in this paragraph. His audience, if they still believe in women’s inferior intelligence, can see how ridiculous the idea is.

October 23, 2007 11:41 am
Kevin Dowd :

Im sure this is what most of the other people here said, but this is a textbook example of a circular argument. Broca attempted to say that because women are less intelligent, they have smaller brains, and because they have smaller brains they are therefore less intelligent.

January 5, 2010 11:19 am
Ashley on paragraph 9:

I’m going to “be passive” right now and say THIS GUY IS RIDICULOUS. I should throw a pointy spoon at him or something…

October 23, 2007 11:42 am
MolllyG on paragraph 19:

If Broca, as I understand, was using only a limited number of corpses, how can his data be so valid that they necessitate something “to do” with them?

October 23, 2007 11:42 am
Katie on paragraph 15:

Thank you, sure he may have numbers to prove that women have smaller head sizes, but perhaps that isn’t about intelligence at all. He is just claiming these things and throwing them around to other people to hear. It’s like he’s spreading a vicious rumor.

October 23, 2007 11:43 am
jane on paragraph 13:

Here is the argument that bigger brain does not necessarily correlate with intelligence. Taller people nautrally tend to have bigger brains, so does that mean taller men have higher level of intelligence than shorter men? Probably not…

October 23, 2007 11:43 am
Emily Ross on paragraph 20:

Broca’s data is interesting, but obviously the weight of someone’s brain may not prove them to be smarter than someone with a lighter brain. “They must be weighed in the context of a general theory that supported contemporary social distinctions as biologically ordained. Women, blacks, and poor people suffered the same disparagement, but women bore the brunt of Broca’s argument because he had easier access to data on women’s brains. ” This paragraph tries to address the fact that Broca’s data does not reflect an isolated prejudice towards a disadvantaged group, however, the entire theory suggests that women (in a general group) are disadvantaged.

October 23, 2007 11:44 am
Sarah Siddiqui on paragraph 21:

finally a women who draws the right conclusions!!!

October 23, 2007 11:44 am
Thomas Brown on paragraph 7:

As I mentioned in my comment for paragraph 9, the disregard men display for the true reaches of the female human intellect stunt mankind’s overall growth and prevent the society from moving forward. It is ridiculous how strongly Broca emphasizes that women are expected, in his time, to be less intelligent than their male counterparts. “Tiedemann has proposed this explanation. But we must not forget that women are, on the average, a little less intelligent than men, a difference which we should not exaggerate but which is, nonetheless, real.” If thoughts like these prevail, how is mankind supposed to find the truth?

October 23, 2007 11:44 am
Alex Breaden on paragraph 7:

So basically his findings were only valid due to the existing stereotype which he was trying to prove/disprove…

October 23, 2007 11:45 am
Katie on paragraph 16:

I’m happy to hear that this guy is making no assumptions and rather just going off of facts that he knows are true. It’s refreshing to me because it’s as though he’s not just saying stuff left and right but rather stating facts that are true and real.

October 23, 2007 11:45 am
blake :

Particularly in statistics, it is important to be aware of lurking variables. A variables besides gender that could affect brain weight would include health, nutrition, and age. It is unbelievable that an amazing scientist such as Boca could overlook this. Perhaps, Broca’s bias of women’s intelligence flawed his interpretation of results

January 5, 2010 2:15 pm
Ashley on paragraph 11:

I wonder if this man ever had a girlfriend [who loved him].

October 23, 2007 11:46 am
Oliver Portacio on paragraph 9:

Though I don’t necessarilly agree with this viewpoint, it is worth noting that such a perspective has managed to survive into modern times.

October 23, 2007 11:46 am
Katie on paragraph 9:

This paragraph tries to make the argument that one possible evolutionary reason for a difference in intelligence was that men were more dominant and women were more passive. Broca was saying that since men had to protect women and was constantly in combat with the environment, that was the reason why men were more intelligent, and I don’t believe that this is a valid argument.

October 23, 2007 11:47 am
MolllyG on paragraph 20:

And what caliber was the intelligence of a little white girl?
Reading about all of this past scientific “knowledge” which discriminates against all minorities, and “proves” how they are lesser beings, brings in mind the Genome Project, especially about the differences between race. Last I heard, there seemed to be no known significant difference in DNA between humans of different races.

October 23, 2007 11:47 am
Lindsey Leonhardi on paragraph 4:

Gould is able to subtly undermine Broca’s work with the simple use of the word “prejudice.” By slipping in words that show Gould’s disagreement with the inferior inteligence of women, the work of Broca and the other various scientists are viewed with critism on the reader’s part. Gould is therefore able to convince the reader of an opinion before even viewing the arguement of the scientists.

October 23, 2007 11:47 am
Valerie Benson on paragraph 13:

This is an interesting quote because it is granting women status, even though it is unintentional. If women are so important to the success of family ties, than why shouldn’t they be treated with the same respect as men. This quote is interesting because it is suggesting that if women haad education, they would “follow” men’s example of war instead of pursuing their own solutions to problems/issues.

October 23, 2007 11:48 am
Emily Ross on paragraph 23:

Yes, I finally agree with this paragraph- that the data was extremely irrevelant. There are going to be both men and women with larger brains and smaller brains and thais has no effect on each person’s intellectual capabilities. I think the idea must be put into broader terms to show each individuals interests vary, there strengths differ, and how they apply themselves, and the support they receive in return will justify their intellectual success.

October 23, 2007 11:48 am
Sarah Round on paragraph 11:

“Everything happens for a Reason.”
This philosophy is tossed around because as a people we want to believe that the good and bad things that happen to us have some explanation, that everything will turn out okay in the end. It offers a reason and makes something that is big much smaller, as if someone could hold it in their hand.
The argument that women are less intelligent then men seems to be like such an explanation. Men did not see women as similar creatures to themselves and wanted explanations, insight on the topic. Women and Men have distinct roles in society, roles that have currently shifted; however, the idea of a “stay at home dad” did not begin until the late 20th century.
By saying women had less intelligence and therefore attempting to prove the statement gave these men understanding of something they knew little of.

October 23, 2007 11:49 am
Thomas Brown on paragraph 15:

The idea that brain size reflects intelligence reminds me of something that I read in my AP Psychology book. Even if a person at a young age were to lose a significant amount of brain matter, they could still lead normal lives and turn out like normal people. It showed an example of a young girl who had a large portion of one side of her brain removed to avoid seizures, but the other half of her brain simply made up for it. Therefore, I agree completely with Katie in that Broca was unreasonable in his conclusions and that intelligence is based off of more than just the size of the brain.

October 23, 2007 11:49 am
jane on paragraph 11:

He created just about only two categories here. The first category is the white adult male and the second category is…just about everyone else, the women, colored people and children. Not only does he seem both racist and sexist, but he makes a generalization that since overall women seem inferior, it would make sense to disregard them all despite the fact that he admitted that for a fact, women can be much superior in intelligence over men.

October 23, 2007 11:50 am
Oliver Portacio on paragraph 13:

If only Le Bon were still alive today he could see just how wrong he was. Hopefully he’d notice that despite the fact that women are now receiving the same level of education as men–and even many of the same jobs–the importance placed upon family in our society hasn’t yet disappeared.

October 23, 2007 11:51 am
Amanda on paragraph 20:

It is interesting to note that Broca’s prejudice was not limited too women, but they “bore the brunt” of his arguments because of the accessibility to their brains. The major foundation of the “inferiority” of women is based on the accessibility and innate prejudice; therefore it is interesting to think about what the standards would be if African Americans were more “accessible.”

October 23, 2007 11:51 am
Emily Ross on whole page :

I think this piece written by George Eliot had some interesting ideas. It was well organized with a great choice of words, and a substantial flow of facts with emotion. It gave the reader a good sense of the historical events, and different peoples ideas concerning the intellectual capabilities and challenges for women.

October 23, 2007 11:52 am
Ashley on paragraph 16:

Is it not excellent when scientists actually try to eliminate other variables when gathering information from testing? (Answer: Indeed it is!)

October 23, 2007 11:52 am
Thomas Brown on paragraph 13:

I agree with Katie and Lucy. There is no statistical data and DEFINITELY not a wide enough sample group to suggest that women are intellectually inferior to men. The totally off-your-rocker-and-hoping-i-trigger-fear way that Le Bon states this is a great example of how illogical sexism is.

October 23, 2007 11:53 am
Lindsey Leonhardi on paragraph 6:

Though Broca claimed he was a scientist, he proved that he should not have been taken more seriously than Britney Spears. Because he studied only small parts of the total picture, and used plain numbers without studying the affects of these numbers.

October 23, 2007 11:54 am
Sarah Round on paragraph 15:

Broca created an experiment of a topic in which he was already certain of the result. He tested only 6 female brains and 7 male brains. The women were older then the men and the heights between both sexes differentiated. He did not have a valid variables, or a control group. His bias was his experiment

October 23, 2007 11:54 am
Valerie Benson on paragraph 17:

I find it odd that one would compare death with intelligence. As Woolf said, we cannot avoid the power of death. This is also interesting because men tend to die before women do. I also find it difficult to believe that brain mass has anything to do with intelligence. Trying to prove this theory would be hard because there are too many factors involved. There would be no simple answer.

October 23, 2007 11:55 am
Alex Breaden on paragraph 11:

Right off the bat I want to make it clear that I in no way shape of form support the claims of Le Bon. In fact as far as things I believe his ideas are about as far away from my thoughts as possible. That being said, I think I can understand how this train of thought could have existed during this time, not just in Le Bon but in a vast amount of other men as well. Women who were subjected to the most menial of jobs, for no fault of their own, but rather that of the existing stereotype, obviously did not exert a great amount of influence or even any kind of reputation whatsoever. Thus I can understand the cycle effect that must have existed.

October 23, 2007 11:56 am
Nicole on paragraph 3:

Not only did people used to use the size of the head to determine intelligence, but they also attempted to define personality and characteristics using the bumps on a person’s head. This was a “highly sophisticated” scientific method called “phrenology” and there was actually a little tool developed to make such measurements.

October 23, 2007 2:03 pm
Sarah Liu on paragraph 3:

yeah… of course it was ridiculous. but it was also a widely accepted idea by men, which is probably why it wasn’t questioned at all. however, this isn’t the first time people were judged by the size of their heads. hitler determined who was jewish by the distance between the person’s nose and forehead or something like that.

science has changed so much and broca’s work was merely unchallenged because the majority of the men in society probably believed the same thing anyways. kind of sad and interesting at the same time. :P

October 23, 2007 2:03 pm
Kayta on paragraph 4:

Broca’s certainty about his belief that small heads mean small brains and therefore less intelligence is flawed. Broca failed to consider fully test his hypothesis. After proving that women’s heads were smaller, he should have proved that smaller heads means smaller brains and that that in turn means less intelligence. Broca was so sure of himself that he missed several crucial things.

October 23, 2007 2:03 pm
Joshua on paragraph 4:

How does measuring a person’s head make any sense in determining how smart they are? Some people just have really oddly large or bumpy heads, but I’m guessing that this doesn’t automatically make someone any smarter than they are. If he was an objective scientist, he wouldn’t have assumed that smaller brains meant less intelligence.

October 23, 2007 2:04 pm
Nicole on paragraph 4:

Well it’s about time someone said something. And how ignorant is Broca? Calling himself an apostle…

October 23, 2007 2:05 pm
Jenni Herold on paragraph 7:

How exactly did Broca presume to measure intelligence? Even now, there isn’t really a correct, accurate way of measuring intelligence. Furthermore, he states his hypothesis that women are less intelligent as fact, even though he hasn’t actually proved its truth.

October 23, 2007 2:05 pm
Joshua on paragraph 7:

Way for Broca to assume two things at once. How does size physical size determine anything at all in humans? Plenty of women are taller, stronger, and smarter than men, maybe it’s just the society he lives in, but maybe he didn’t notice this.

October 23, 2007 2:07 pm
DarcyJ on paragraph 3:

It’s interesting that the theory that women weren’t as intelligent as men had such an impact on science, and what questions the scientists were trying to solve. What other scientific questions haven’t even been though of because of commonly accepted “truths”?

October 23, 2007 2:07 pm
Quynh-An on paragraph 6:

Well, reading through this paragraph was hard because its ridiculous. How does he know that women have smaller brains then men? He cannot prove this fact, therefore, could the intelligence be equal or not cannot be determined. IF Broca “bowed before facts” then where did he get these facts from? Women could be intelligence equal, more or less but that can be proved through his words. In fact recent studies showed that the percentage of women attending college is higher than men.

October 23, 2007 2:08 pm
Lisa on paragraph 6:

Broca knew that his evidence and findings posed curious questions with simple answers, but he also knew that society would eat it up regardless. People wanted to hear that women were inferior because it had been assumed to be true for as long as they could remember. It seems that less concrete proof is needed when you’re preaching to the choir…

October 23, 2007 2:08 pm
Kayta on paragraph 7:

This time, Broca failed to account for education and poverty differences in his intelligence tests. Was Broca’s test biased against women? Again, Broca was so sure that he was right, that he failed to see the obvious.

October 23, 2007 2:08 pm
Mayuri Reddy on paragraph 7:

I’m really shocked at how easily he states that we are “permitted to suppose” that women are not as intelligent because of the size of their brain. Yes women’s brains may be smaller, but that does not dictate how much of it they use.

October 23, 2007 2:08 pm
Nicole on paragraph 7:

It’s funny how they state something that is obviously the truth and then quickly disregard it after having taken into account a fabricated truth.

“But we must not forget that women are, on the average, a little less intelligent than men, a difference which we should not exaggerate but which is, nontheless, real.”

And the fact that the smaller you are, the more inferior. Now the smaller bodies that women have are physical evidence of their inferiority. That’s pretty frustrating.

October 23, 2007 2:09 pm
Sara Levy on paragraph 6:

“…because we know, a priori, that women are not as intelligent as men” is an example of sarcasm. It is effective because when I first read that, it caught my attention and made me immediately react with “that’s not right.” But then I realized that it obviously is not the author’s actual opinion, he’s just using that particular technique to show me how wrong Broca’s idea was.

October 23, 2007 2:09 pm
DarcyJ on paragraph 4:

Hey, it’s like what we learned in Psychology! That correlation doesn’t mean causation. Except that in this case, what was being effected wasn’t even being measured, so they had no scientific proof of whether there was really a correlation or not.

October 23, 2007 2:10 pm
Kathryn McCormick on paragraph 11:

And here he is not only sexist, but racist as well. Here, though, he brings up “savages.” I’d like to know what he’d say if he compared brain sizes between races, and if the “savage” race was on average taller and had a bigger head size, whether he’d come to the same conclusion about brain size equalling intelligence.

October 23, 2007 2:11 pm
Sarah Liu on paragraph 6:

i think it’s funny that even though broca knew that the size of the brain could be affected by height, he disregarded that information… and it’s not like the weight of the brain can justly determine how “smart” someone is… information cannot be measured as a mass… unless i’ve been missing something.

October 23, 2007 2:11 pm
Nicole on paragraph 11:

Ignorance.

Funny how all of these studies are conducted by men.

October 23, 2007 2:11 pm
Joshua on paragraph 11:

I don’t understand how this idiot believes women are like gorillas, because at the time they took care off everything in the house, no easy job. This guy comes along and assumes that women are less intelligent then men, even though his wife probably cooks all his meals and does all of the chores of the house every day. If women are closer to savages and children, men would probably not entrust them with anything, but women took care of some of the most important things in life at that time and now, and is ridiculous for him to even suggest that women are not as intelligent as men.

October 23, 2007 2:12 pm
Linnea Bickeboeller on paragraph 6:

It seems like the reason why he did not investigate was because it was a known fact that women were not as intelligent as men so he did not need to.

October 23, 2007 2:12 pm
DarcyJ on paragraph 7:

…that’s pretty funny.

October 23, 2007 2:12 pm
Robin on paragraph 11:

Perhaps their measurements were accurate, but Le Bon, as a “scientist”, was out of line to throw in his own opinion by calling the supposedly rare occurrence of smart women a monstrosity and basically a birth defect. And scientific procedure aside, he was stupid to tell the public to neglect smart women, even if they’re smarter than the average man. Why wouldn’t society benefit from someone possibly smarter than he?

October 23, 2007 2:13 pm
Leah Gibbons on paragraph 24:

I think this is a great way to end the article. It’s a profound reminder that even if women were on average less intelligent than men, or content to be at home, there would always be those who will seek something better. We should give it to them.

October 23, 2007 2:13 pm
Quynh-An on paragraph 5:

I was confused when it mentioned that “But they were opposed by numbers unknown to Condorcer or to Johnh Stuart Mill.” Is the quote saying that women doesn’t have soul? Are women not human? If so then how are women being a human being does not have human intelligence? This is ridiculous.

October 23, 2007 2:13 pm
Sara Levy on paragraph 7:

I think it’s great that the author included that last sentence of this example, because I think it is a generalization that hardly anyone would agree with, and most would adamantly oppose. This is an example of ethos, because the author is showing opposing opinions that are ridiculous, and therefore is making his own opinion seem to be obviously the correct one.

October 23, 2007 2:14 pm
Kayta on paragraph 14:

That does indeed sound familiar. In fact, it is exactly what the conservatives say as a defense to Gay marriage. They say it is not natural, goes against family values, and will destroy the “sacred” families. All social revolutions will begin this way–with people disagreeing and bringing God into it. People should just keep fighting until they win, like the feminists did, the African-Americans did, and the GLBT’s are doing.

October 23, 2007 2:14 pm
Rosa on paragraph 15:

This is a good argument – it uses phronesis to establish the author as a logical person, and it’s appealing heavily to women who may feel offended by these findings.

October 23, 2007 2:16 pm
DarcyJ on paragraph 11:

Really, really funny.

Of course, to a woman, men may seem devoid of logic and reason as well.

October 23, 2007 2:16 pm
Felisa on paragraph 4:

The great irony here that really struck me (and which I loved) was that a man who wanted to impress upon others the mental and academic superiority of man over a woman erroneously thought that he could measure intelligence by the size of a person’s brain. This was a subtle yet smart technique on the side of Stephen Jay Gould.

I also like it how he tried to show that he does have an open mind by pointing out that he “[has] the greatest respect for Broca’s meticulous procedure.” He shows that he is aware of Broca’s scrupulousness but, as he points out, “Numbers… specify nothing. All depends upon what you do with them.” It is a subtle yet mocking way to prove the inaccuracy in Broca’s theory and method.

October 23, 2007 2:16 pm
Paige Brooks on paragraph 6:

For 292 male brains, he calculated an average weight of 1,325 grams; 140 female brains averaged 1,144 grams for a difference of 181 grams, or 14 percent of the male weight. Broca understood, of course, that part of this difference could be attributed to the greater height of males. Yet he made no attempt to measure the effect of size alone.” For one thing the physical size of the brain has nothing to do with the intelligence that that person has. It is purely attributed to the amount of synapses that are connected in the brain. Therefore, just because men’s brains where measured to be larger does not my any means prove that men are superior to women. Secondly, I find it wrong that any scientist would think that his/her experiement was incorrect and not investigate it further.

October 23, 2007 2:17 pm
Sara Levy on paragraph 9:

This is so weird…this guy is a scientist, so it seems like he should be intelligent. Yet he actually thinks that it’s possible to make accurate inferences about how people related to each other in prehistoric times, and use no actual science to back this up…he didn’t know how to use rhetoric very well, because all I could see from his explanation was what it is lacking…meaning evidence…

October 23, 2007 2:18 pm
Leah Gibbons on paragraph 7:

This is AWESOME! Broca didn’t even try to determine the effect height would have on brain size; he just assumed that it didn’t matter. Way to follow the scientific method, Broca. It’s nice of him to not “exaggerate” the difference.

Yeah, what?

October 23, 2007 2:18 pm
Kayta on paragraph 17:

Degenerative disease such as Alzheimer’s, is more common in women and old people, because women live longer and are less likely to die in accidents, it would make sense that more women’s brains were abnormally light.

October 23, 2007 2:19 pm
Mayuri Reddy on paragraph 9:

Yeah. OKAY mister smartie pants. clearly he’s an idiot. the sexism is isn’t even subtle, he goes right out and says what he thinks, showing that he’s very bold and also, very confident that others are going to agree with him. maybe his mother didn’t love him? cause I just think this is rediculous

October 23, 2007 2:19 pm
Justin Blackwood on paragraph 4:

Broca’s work gave exactly what men wanted to believe; that they were superior then women, now mind you, not all of them. The fact that Broca is a scientist makes it authentic and not some bogus theory that was created by a sexist. The experiment instilled a false sense of inferiority in women and failed to prove anything scientifically.

October 23, 2007 2:20 pm
Kathryn McCormick on paragraph 19:

I wonder if Broca was a tall or short person? It’s always nice to have prejudices confirmed. His reasoning seems to be a case of doing an experiment anticipating for one answer, and trying to bend the data so it supports this conclusion.

October 23, 2007 2:20 pm
Robin on paragraph 15:

He was a terrible scientist. He took numbers but apparently had a very small correlation between his independent and dependent variables (head size and intelligence). And how did he measure their intelligence and reasoning? This has not been mentioned. This would be a deciding factor in whether to be believe his conclusions or not. Instead, the people who read his findings did not exercise critical thinking and question how he conducted his experiment, they instead believed the results because of their already existing bias.

October 23, 2007 2:21 pm
Quynh-An on paragraph 6:

How does human weight relate to human intelligence is what I am confused about. His research isn’t even precise. He didn’t even conduct the research accurately. Why did he survey more men than women? How does the correlation of weight affect human intelligence. So is he saying that the more weight a human has, the smarter they are????

October 23, 2007 2:21 pm
Sarah Liu on paragraph 11:

WOWWWWW!!!!!

what do these men say to their wives?!?!?!

“honey, will you cook me dinner? oh wait… can you understand me? i didn’t know that savages understood english…”

i’ll bet that all of these men died single.

October 23, 2007 2:21 pm
Kevin Dowd :

Gould definitely made a good choice in deciding to include this quote in his argument. His obvious goal with this quote is to enrage the reader and to use Le Bon as a representative of Broca’s entire school, disclaimer or not, and I would say it was very successful from reading the above comments.

January 5, 2010 11:30 am
Cecilia on paragraph 11:

Seriously? This guy is too much. Just because someone has a small skull doesn’t mean they are unintelligent. So, because these women had a head size close to gorillas, it means that they’re dumber than men? REALLY?! So, what about the rest of the human anatomy? Ears? Feet? If someone has smaller ears then others, it means they can’t hear? OKAY, Le Bon. You’re nuts.

October 23, 2007 2:22 pm
Leah Gibbons on paragraph 11:

This is particularly amusing in light of a study I read about in the Times a few weeks ago. Turns out that men and mentally challenged people both laugh at the same kinds of jokes.

Anyway, yeah, this is a vicious attack. His statement about how the inferiority is obvious is equivalent to saying “clearly”–no, it’s not clear or obvious! You have to prove it!

October 23, 2007 2:22 pm
Felisa on paragraph 6:

“A supposed increase in male superiority through time”? What? Did he think they were eventually going to be able to do away with women?

As much as Gould tries to create an irritating persona for Broca, we also somewhat get a sense that he was not the only stupid one during his time. “We know, a priori, that women are not as intelligent as men,” wrote Gould. This conviction that “we” (or at least “they” — basically, much of society back then) held seemed unworthy of scrutiny. So Broca was just testing upon something society never felt the need to question.

October 23, 2007 2:22 pm
Sara Levy on paragraph 12:

I like that the author is neutral here, and doesn’t put in an opinion about what we just read. We can interpret it for ourselves, and he just makes sure to provide a segway into the next section. Gould understands how much more effective it is to show us a vivid example than to just tell us about sexism.

October 23, 2007 2:22 pm
Kayta on paragraph 21:

Children of successful families were better fed, and therefore taller with larger skulls, would probably turn out to be successful as well, though not because of their skull size.

October 23, 2007 2:23 pm
Linnea Bickeboeller on paragraph 11:

Le Bon says that woman “excel in fickleness, inconstancy, absence of thought and logic, and incapacity to reason.” He is saying this after women have been compared to gorillas and said they have intelligence closer to a child. This thought had gone on for a very long time, so the woman were used to hearing it. Perhaps the reason they are fickle and no able to think is because the men of the society neglected to educate them because of their brain size. His argument is completely absurd because he tries to show that woman are stupid because of how they act. It doesn’t cross his mind that men are the reason woman were uneducated.

October 23, 2007 2:23 pm
Jenni Herold on paragraph 11:

Without doubt there exist some distinguished women, very superior to the average man, but they are as exceptional as the birth of any monstrosity, as, for example, of a gorilla with two heads; consequently, we may neglect them entirely.

I LOVED this line. Comparing an intelligent woman to a two-headed gorilla? Seriously?

And clearly, ALL psychologists, poets, and novelists think that women are inferior and savage.

If these guys are so obsessed with cold, hard facts, perhaps they shouldn’t be stating what is merely a biased, prejudiced opinion as fact.

October 23, 2007 2:24 pm
Quynh-An on paragraph 16:

” Brain weight decreases with age, and Broca’s women were, on average, considerably older than his men.” How does this correlation work again? It doesnt make any sense. This is really bad science or bad research. It is soo hard to read and understand this!

October 23, 2007 2:24 pm
Cecilia on paragraph 4:

Is this guy nuts? “Women, like it or not, had smaller brains than men and, therefore, could not equal them in intelligence.” I sure hope this guy is writer is writing through the process of Broca’s thought process, because if this is really how he feels, then he has something coming to him. I can kind of understand where Broca came up with his theory, because it’s somewhat logical – and considering the time period, limited knowledge of intelligence was readily available. I can’t help but scuff at it now, in the 21st century, because we all know that the size of somebody’s head has no correlation with the level of their intelligence.

October 23, 2007 2:25 pm
Paige Brooks on paragraph 9:

I do not agree that the “role of women is to raise children, love, and be passive.” Although these things may be parts of womens’ lives, woman have more than that. I think that this is a very sexist statement. I do not agree that men are souly the ones who care about tomorrow and do all of the hard work and responsibility. I think it is generally more accurate that men and women work together to “raise children and love.” However, I also do not believe that it is any ones role to be passive. Men and women both have the right to stand up for what they believe, have their own oppinions, and be leaders, not just follow someone else.

October 23, 2007 2:25 pm
Cecilia on paragraph 3:

‘ve heard about this experiment before, in psychology last year – but it never ceases to amuse me. Not only did this theory carry people in distinguishing intelligence, but they also used this theory in predicting the future criminal potential of people as well as mental disabilities. Can you believe that? They actually measured the size, shape, and number of “dents” people had in their heads to predict the future of their criminal potential. Imagine, someone comes to measure your head, and says “you have three dents on the left side of your skull so it means you’re going to rob a bank in the near future.” How hilarious! It’s amazing to see how much medical technology has advanced in the last 150 years. Thank god.

October 23, 2007 2:26 pm
Justin Blackwood on paragraph 7:

Some of the smartest people I know are short women…. Don’t take that the wrong way =(.

October 23, 2007 3:03 pm
Linnea Bickeboeller on whole page :

Since Broca had data that the difference of a 5′4” guy and a 6′4” guy was 113 grams why didn’t he say shorter people are stupid?

October 23, 2007 7:35 pm
Meghan Keenan on paragraph 7:

This is so absurd. It was just like common knowledge: women were not as smart as men. They just weren’t. And for that reason MEN are allowed to theorize as to why their brains are smaller. Oh, of course it’s partly due to a woman’s physical inferiority. But it is also due partly to intellectual inferiority. I’m so glad we had so many smart men to have biased opinions.

October 23, 2007 10:08 pm
Meghan Keenan on paragraph 9:

Although in today’s society this is completely ridiculous, in the 1800s women were seen as the caretakers, the mothers, and the “arm candy” (passive). For some reason this part reminds me somewhat of the bible JUST because God instructs the man to be the protector and the woman to be the mother and lover. Obviously this idea was taken too far but I don’t think Topinard is thinking outside the box of his time; this just was the way women were viewed.

October 23, 2007 10:14 pm
Megan Moreland on paragraph 11:

The arguments Le Bon makes are absolutely ridiculous. First of all, he has no support for any of his claims. He just says that women are stupid, and no one can disagree with him. This guy is ignorant and a loser. I don’t like him. Also, by refering to the “distinguished women” as another “monstrosity”, comparing them to a gorilla with two heads (what??) he implies that even these women of superior intelligence are not necessarily a positive thing.

October 24, 2007 9:11 am
Megan Moreland on paragraph 13:

Here Le Bon, aside from showing his readers what a sexist prat he is, further ruins his credibility by showing his biased belief that woman are not worthy of the same opportunities and rights as men. He doesn’t believe women should have the right to teh same education, which shows that his claims can’t be trusted because he shows no evidence to support them – they are all completely opinion-based and ridiculous.

October 24, 2007 9:17 am
Megan Moreland on paragraph 19:

HAHA! “in short” – it’s a pun (ish). ANYWAY, this paragraph shows how ridiculous all of teh “data” “supporting” the claim that women all have smaller brains and therefore inferior intelligence to men. The sample used to support thsi general idea is very selective, which of course then shows the data that Broca was looking for. He did not take into account all the other variables that DID affect brain size (or rather, he did, but instead ascribed the results to an unrelated “cause”).

October 24, 2007 9:29 am
Kathryn McCormick on paragraph 7:

I’d like to see him say this to the family matriarchs of his day. I’m sure these smart, scheming, political-and-social minded women would give him a polite answer to his comments about women being intellectually inferior.

October 24, 2007 3:24 pm
Linnea Bickeboeller on paragraph 19:

Why doesn’t Broca say that short people are dumber than tall people because that is what his research would shows.

October 24, 2007 8:52 pm
Felisa on paragraph 9:

Sedentary woman? Well, who forced women to become sedentary in the first place?

Also, what this scientist neglects to realize that you actually love with your mind and not your heart (psychology stuff!)

October 24, 2007 11:08 pm
Felisa on paragraph 10:

“I do not claim his views were representative of Broca’s school…”
This seemed an unnecessary thing to mention to me. He is too worried about credibility that his writing comes off as weak in some points. Like this one.

October 24, 2007 11:10 pm
Felisa on paragraph 11:

Let me NOT even comment on the content of this…Otherwise, I’d end up with 15 pages proving that men are not that great either… In fact, they’re more primitive than women.
ANYWAY… Let me just say that it was a very wise move on Gould’s part to quote this because, especially in the 1980s (during the Third Wave Feminism), this would have enraged a lot of women (and maybe some men) to the point of heart attacks.

October 24, 2007 11:13 pm
Sara Levy on whole page :

“I do not regard as empty rhetoric the claim that women’s battles are for all of us.” I like that he added this. It is use of ethos, as he’s trying to show us that he is sympathetic and we can agree on his viewpoints.

October 24, 2007 11:19 pm
Felisa on paragraph 21:

I’m kind of lost… what’s the point of this paragraph? I mean, I can kind of see how it might be useful to the essay but so much unnecessarily detail is given about Maria Montessori in the beginning of the paragraph that I lost interest.

October 24, 2007 11:20 pm
Sara Levy on paragraph 20:

“I do not regard as empty rhetoric the claim that women’s battles are for all of us.” I like that he added this. It is use of ethos, as he’s trying to show us that he is sympathetic and we can agree on his viewpoints. He is making female readers more likely to agree with him because he’s showing them that he appreciates their intelligence and understands their struggles.

October 24, 2007 11:24 pm
Felisa on paragraph 21:

*unnecessary

October 24, 2007 11:28 pm
Felisa on paragraph 12:

I want to revive Le Bon for just a few minutes to make him read what the women here have been saying about his conclusions.

I also like how Gould uses “horrified” as if he knew that Le Bon did not just see educating women as destructive, he also saw it as a threat — something to be feared.

October 24, 2007 11:33 pm
Felisa on paragraph 19:

Broca obviously did not know anything about statistics. Random sampling? Hello?

Not only that, but a 6 foot 4 inch guy should be an outlier.

Did he really expect that a 6′4″ man and a 5′4″ woman would have equally sized brains? I’m 5′4″ and I can tell you that a guy whose 6′4″ probably wears twice the size of shoes that I do… And he probably has bigger hands, longer limbs, etc. Of course he’s going to have a bigger brain! That doesn’t mean anything though. You’d think a man as educated as Broca would have known even just a wee bit of psychology… unfortunately, it seems like he didn’t.

So yes, I agree with Gould. Who knows what to do with Broca’s data? It proves nothing.

October 24, 2007 11:39 pm
Manjot on paragraph 4:

WOW!!!!!
I can’t believe somebody can be so ignorant and even have enough courage to say, “women, like it or not, had smaller brains than men and, therefore, could not equal them in intelligence.” Does this guy not realize that he is what he is because of a WOMAN! He’s a hypocrite for sure!

October 24, 2007 11:45 pm
Manjot on paragraph 6:

Why doesn’t he just keep on saying “women are stupid” about 500 more times in this essay. He definitely needs to do some more research because a bigger brain doesn’t mean you are more intelligent!

October 24, 2007 11:52 pm
Manjot on paragraph 7:

“Women are, on average, a little less intelligent than men…” What women was he testing for this so called statistic of his. I can’t believe he has the guts to say this stuff.

October 24, 2007 11:53 pm
Whitney A on paragraph 4:

The author holds Broca’s “detailed work” in too high esteem. He claims that it is sound science when there is no evidence or proof of Broca’s “soundness.” It sounds as though Broca is being compared to god by having a “host of disciples” and depicted as “an apostle.” To be honest it’s kind of disgusting to read.

October 25, 2007 9:27 am
Whitney A on paragraph 8:

Did any of theses scientists bother to question and study what was accounting for teh supposed difference in size of the brains? It seems like theese science men were trying to come up with any excuse possible to tell the public that women were/are more inferior. Their ego’s needed a bigger boost apparently.

October 25, 2007 9:31 am
Lucy on paragraph 11:

I just felt like commenting in rampant protest because everyone else was, but there is definitely enough of that without my two cents. Funny how this is the most popular paragraph in the piece.

October 25, 2007 11:22 am
DarcyJ on paragraph 13:

It’s interesting to see how big a difference there is between thinking now and thinking when this study was done. It gives an idea of just how much this view has changed in that time.

October 25, 2007 2:12 pm
Erika on paragraph 3:

I think that it is quite amusing that they thought that intelligence was directly connected with the size of a persons skull. It is funny that they scientists who went unquestioned and were considered the “jewel of nineteenth-century science” and they were so niave. They didn’t even think about the fact that though humans don’t have the biggest skulls compared to many other mammals we consider ourselves to be the most intelligent. So why would it make sense that skull size would impact intelligence only when they thought that it was convenient because it would serve as the only way to “prove” that men are more intelligent that women. I find it to be extremely ironic that some of the most respected scientists of the time were also some of the most ignorant, and they were not even thorough enough in their conclusions that they never really proved anything.

October 26, 2007 1:03 am
Erika on paragraph 7:

This guy is crazy. He is arguing that it is not possible for the size of the male and female body to be the explanation for their proportional brain sizes, but the only argument he has is saying “But we must not forget that women are, on average, a little less intelligent than men, a difference which we should not exaggerate but which is , nonetheless, real.” He is supposed to be a scientist, yet he draws his conclusions from an assumption that has been made by men over time and was taken to be common knowledge, though no one had actually proven it.

October 26, 2007 8:40 am
Erika on paragraph 11:

I cant believe that this guy really thinks that women are intellectually inferior to men. He says that there have been studies done comparing the intelligence of men and women, but i have a feeling that they are not the most thorough results and I’m sure that the studies were done by men, not women. Also these studies don’t take into account the fact that at the time, women were not given the opportunity to have an education and therefore the results of these studies can be greatly attributed to womens lack of an education, not their lack of intelligence.

October 26, 2007 10:54 am
eugene sledge on whole page :

[...] inconvenient indefiniteness with which the Supreme Power has fashioned the natures of women if therhttp://aptexts.edublogs.org/2007/10/19/womens-brainsby-stephen-jay-gould/Amazon.com: With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa: E.B. …An Alabama boy steeped in American [...]

May 6, 2008 1:04 am

[...] we’re going to talk “Women’s Brains” in class today, but first…we’re going to find the quotes Gould chooses and [...]

January 15, 2009 3:59 pm
andrew on paragraph 2:

It is interesting that at this point in the essay, the author is commenting on the “Supreme Power” granting woman with incompetence, and there is not yet a comment on the Man-Woman paradigm in which most social are relayed.

January 16, 2009 9:01 am
Patrick Stein on paragraph 7:

I think my favorite part about this quote is that the speaker assumes that we all know that women are less intelligent than men “on average” without giving any sort of scientific backing to his claim. His assumption is little more than an urban legend of the day that Gould uses to show the ignorance of the scientists at the time. It seems the intellects of the day were more interested in finding data that not supported the scientific world but supported their own egos.

January 16, 2009 9:02 am
mmfgk on paragraph 2:

So, the lives of talented women are mistakes? I hope she was being sarcastic.

January 16, 2009 9:03 am
Becky on paragraph 2:

I thought this was a good way to start out the essay because it helps the reader understand the way people thought about women.

January 16, 2009 9:04 am
Upma on paragraph 6:

The weight of the brain does not effect the usage of it.

January 16, 2009 9:05 am
Gretchen Vietmeier on paragraph 2:

Eliot comments on the “blundering lives” of women. Does this mean that she thinks her own life has no purpose or direction, because of the indecision of whatever “Supreme Power” lords over it?

January 16, 2009 9:06 am
Heather on paragraph 13:

I find it interesting that this invokes an idea that has been common throughout history–that if the woman “leave[s] the home” “a social revolution will begin,” destroying the “sacred ties of the family”.

This quote seems strange, as it turns away from the idea that women are simply inferior to men, and instead argues that if they leave the home, society will fall apart. I would ask Le Bon, “Which is it? Should women be kept in the home because they are inferior to men and simply can’t handle the outside world, or is it because their leaving would cause a change in the traditional family?”

January 16, 2009 9:06 am
willa on paragraph 2:

I don’t think the quote means that women are innately incompetent, but they women are raised in a society that makes them believe that it is the nature of women to be incompetent. If you grow up under a stigma or gender type that defines you, you may be treated as such, and may then be lead to believe that indeed you are in fact to a measure, incompetent. We are limited by the biases and social expectations we hold for each other. If we treated people as equals in the scientific field I don’t think there would be this disparity. So it is tragic because a talented woman may not reach her full potential because she and her peers believe her expertise to be stunted, and so it will be stunted.

January 16, 2009 9:07 am
Lauren on paragraph 7:

Broca uses his pre-existing prejudices to twist the data he got into fitting what he wants it to fit. He acknowledges that the smaller size of women overall would have an effect on this, but because he already “knew” that women were less intelligent, that must be a reason for the smaller brain size.

January 16, 2009 9:08 am
Shaina Ives on paragraph 2:

- I am shocked and slightly insulted by the comment, it groups women all together saying that because some women are incompetent the whole “social lot” are ignored. However they fail to make the acknoledgement that men are also stupid.
- I think Gould used this quote because she wanted to show that women were not really judge correctly for who they were as people.
- I would say that they are not giving women enough time to fully express themselves and they should rethink their comment.

January 16, 2009 9:08 am
tenney on paragraph 2:

Although slightly confusing if just glancing over the quote, after actually reading the passage I found my initial reaction to be pretty much in agreement (for since their is no level of female incompetence that is strictly limited, therefore our intelligence can’t scientifically less…) This argument by George Elliot is similar to Stephen Gould’s overall purpose and thesis and therefore is why he used in the beginning of his essay.

January 16, 2009 9:09 am
Xana on paragraph 2:

What is this quote attempting to say? At first, I was completely confused with what George Elliot was attempting to say. I believe that Gould began with this quote to start out with an open beginning. I feel like the openness of this quote sets up Gould’s essay. He wants to begin with a questioning beginning that makes you interested ini reading more. It also leaves the reader questioning the existence of great women or the lack here of. If I were to respond to this woman, I would further question her idea about the limitations placed on women.

January 16, 2009 9:09 am
Lisa on paragraph 5:

I think Gould uses this quote, because he is trying to explain how woman are being held back by numbers. The way he uses the word numbers in this quote, he makes it sound like the ‘numbers’ are actually men. The individual who was quoted, was saying how woman are not only being held back by men, but also their words that they speak to the woman.

January 16, 2009 9:10 am
mmfgk on paragraph 5:

I’d like to know which church fathers he was talking about. I’d heard that the church believed that women should occupy a separate social sphere, because they were softer and their kindness should remain uncorrupted. But I have never heard the church questioning that women had a soul.

January 16, 2009 9:10 am
Becky on paragraph 5:

I especially like this quote (not only because it disagrees with Broca) because it shows how far we’ve come…”theologians asked if women had a soul,” sounds pretty ridiculous to us but there was time when this was an actual question.

January 16, 2009 9:11 am
andrew on paragraph 4:

I thought that the Cranial studies had been considered irrevelant to intelligence. It is the amount of Grey Matter, Association areas, and a multiplicity of things which determine intelligence. Besides, anyone who is intelligent could most likely come to the unscientific conclusion (however true), that intelligence is not a matter of quantitative judgement (you have so much grey matter, etc.) But what you do with your life. And plain and simply woman are doing a hell of a lot of things right in this century and thats a fact.So this seems irrevelant to today.

January 16, 2009 9:11 am
Heather on paragraph 7:

He comes up with the idea that maybe the different sizes are related to body size, and then totally pushes it aside. He was so close to actually making sense, but then he completely ignored it. Where did he get this idea that “women are, on the average, a little less intelligent that men”? Where is his evidence for this?

January 16, 2009 9:12 am
Xana on paragraph 5:

As a woman, this quote leaves me feeling completely belittled. At one time in history, we, women, were denied souls. The male race believed that we did not have souls, but finally accepted that we did. Now, they refuse believe that we have intelligence. This is absurd? Women are just as important as men. They have contributed just as much to society, in one way or another, as men. Without women, the human race would not continue to flourish!

January 16, 2009 9:13 am
Dillon on paragraph 3:

Although I agree that ideas established during this time period are false, I am not astonished that scientists believed this. The size of the brain was the only physically measurable thing of that time for scientists to examine. They were not able to perform brain scans and probably didn’t test women’s abilities compared to men’s.

Secondly, when we look at a time period where women were oppressed, it could easily be said that women did not make as many renowned contributions to society as men.

January 16, 2009 9:14 am
mmfgk on paragraph 7:

This is a great example of circular reasoning.

January 16, 2009 9:14 am
Patrick Stein on paragraph 9:

Once again it seems that these “scientists” are more interested in boosting their own egos instead of raising the scientific standard. All of these claims have no scientific backing whatsoever and seem to be more based on the simple the ramblings of men who were probably beat up when they were little by other kids so they have the need to feel superior over someone.

January 16, 2009 9:15 am
Alissa on paragraph 2:

When I first read this I was a little suspicious of the logic, but when I think about it more it makes some sense. I am curious what evidence Elliot would supply to back up her hypothesis, and what, exactly, she means by “inconvenient indefiniteness.”
Gould uses this quote to lead into a discussion about the methods people have used to measure intelligence, such as crainometry and anthropometry.

January 16, 2009 9:16 am
mmfgk on paragraph 9:

No one I’ve talked to has ever described raising children as passive. It takes a lot more to raise children than he gives women credit for. He seems extremely patronizing.

January 16, 2009 9:16 am
Julie on paragraph 5:

I agree with this quote completely. It seems completely stupid that obviously intelligent women were discredited by sets of data. The fact that theologians questioned the existence of women’s souls speaks to the degree of discrimination that women faced.

January 16, 2009 9:18 am
asdf on paragraph 4:

“Women, like it or not, had smaller brains than men and, therefore, could not equal them in intelligence.” It seems so absurd that there was such a thought as this quote, even so long ago. The size of a person’s head does not prove their intelligence proved through scientific research. Whereas, Broca’s theory is based upon a favored prejudice of society. It was was surprising to stumble across while reading, and seemed completely unbelievable.

January 16, 2009 9:18 am
Shaina Ives on paragraph 5:

- I feel very happy and agree with this person. In this situation with Broca as well as in other situations the minority in question is fitted into these numbers without well founded examination of their person.
- I think Gould used this quote to show that though there was a lot of bias against women there were still educated people that were able to go against what was considered the norm for males to believe and make their own idea, thus singling out their own community to be at fault.
- I would give this person who wrote this quote lots of praise. I think it is really good that a person makes this observation. Though I would like to add that if there is a mindset that is made and placed on a minority then they will start to conform to it as they feel like it will be futile to escape.

January 16, 2009 9:18 am
Gretchen Vietmeier on paragraph 9:

Were this to be published somewhere publicly now, almost 150 years later, I think the reaction against Broca’s expression of women’s roles would far override the acceptance of it.

January 16, 2009 9:19 am
Brian on paragraph 2:

It’s amazing that someone can just say women are dumber than men. Simply because women are biologically smaller than men doesn’t mean they are dumber. If these false ideas could have been scientific in the 19th century, i wonder what ideas today will eventually be disproven in the next century or two.

January 16, 2009 9:20 am
Lauren on paragraph 9:

This is interesting because it takes into account the nature of the duties of men and women, especially at this time. Men were, throughout history and still at the time this was written, in charge. They were the breadwinners who went out into the world and had to protect their families, while women stayed home and cared for them. Broca extrapolates these societal rules to be anatomical rules.

January 16, 2009 9:21 am
Julie on paragraph 7:

Alright then, I suppose that women are just destined to be completely inferior in all ways to everyone? I feel like the author here (of the quote) is trying to apologize or seem sympathetic to women (”…a difference which we should not exaggerate…”), but at the same time resigns them to a life of inferiority.

January 16, 2009 9:24 am
Julie on paragraph 2:

I’m not really sure what Elliot is suggesting here, but it sounds to me as though she’s crying out for a universal way to determine intelligence.

January 16, 2009 9:31 am
cnieman on paragraph 2:

I find it curious that Elliot calls the indefiniteness of female incompetence “inconvenient.” Does he actually want to have a way to scientifically measure the incompetence of humans? Why females? What would this give her, what would it give the human race? It seems pretty clear why Gould uses this quote, because it introduces the topic at hand, but I find Elliot’s proposition inherently ridiculous.

January 16, 2009 11:23 am
Erin on paragraph 2:

One question I have is why the speaker thinks that the world would be a better place if women’s incompetence could count to three and no more. I think Gould uses this quote to put in context some of the more negative attitudes toward women of the past. I would say to this person that maybe the fact that they can’t find anything definitive to pin women’s incompetence on means that they may be smarter than they think.

January 16, 2009 11:23 am
Virginia on paragraph 2:

I think she is saying that although many believe that women are fashioned by a “Supreme Power” to be less intelligent, there is actually no way to actually prove it. Since women do display intellect, and are able to at least think simply, there is no way to prove that they are intellectually undeveloped.

January 16, 2009 11:25 am
Lena C. on paragraph 2:

My initial response to the quote is one of disgust. I am slightly offended that someone would suggest that, “the inconvenient indefiniteness with which the Supreme Power has fashioned the natures of women…” is a scientific fact. Women are not innately inferior to men and there is no science that can prove women’s “scientific certitude.” Gould uses this quote to show that there is no scientific principle that proves that women can count above three. Gould uses this quote that to show that science cannot prove inferiority of women. I agree with the statement that since we cannot prove with scientific fact that women are incapable of higher level thinking, the latter is completely false.

January 16, 2009 11:25 am
Annnnnnnna on paragraph 5:

It baffles me to think that a group of people (men in this case) could think that women do not even have a soul. Belittling women to the point of refusing to acknowledge them as even human seems to me selfish and in a way THEY now seem the idiots.

January 16, 2009 11:26 am
ape36 on paragraph 5:

This is a strong argument because, as we see later in the essay, numbers must be analyzed in a logical way before they have meaning. Just saying that men have bigger brains, without taking into account body size, has no significance. This quote says that centuries ago, it was wondered if women had souls. It seems ridiculous that that was even a question, and it makes the idea of women being less intelligent seem even more ridiculous.

January 16, 2009 11:26 am
Frazier on paragraph 2:

Its seems like the quote is meant to say that the difference is intelligence is indefinite and unclear. This means that there’s no way to scientifically and quantitatively assert that women are dumber. Gould shows it first to weaken the scientific studies by Boca and others that say that women are dumber.

Elliot makes a good point that unless we can show that stupidity is the sole reason for women’s unfulfilling lives, that we can’t rule out the possibility of other reasons.

January 16, 2009 11:26 am
Vicky on paragraph 2:

I agree that you can’t prove the particular claim with scientific proof. But did all women have unfulfilled lives? I think it is exaggerated to say that women have “blundering lives.”

January 16, 2009 11:27 am
Ryan on paragraph 2:

My initial response to this quote is that this quote is extremely confusing. However, after a deeper examination its possible to see that she is actually saying that there is no scientific proof saying that woman are not as smart as men. Gould uses this in his essay to give an exmaple of how people have measured intelligence in the past.

January 16, 2009 11:27 am
Annnnnnnna on paragraph 7:

HA! (is there anything else to say…)

January 16, 2009 11:27 am
Mollie on paragraph 5:

Manouvrier’s comparison to the ancient philosophers in Greece who theorized that women don’t have souls is an excellent rebuttal to the “commentaries and sarcasms” of men of that time. Bringing up something that the clergy that ruled Europe for centuries furtively disagreed with shows how ridiculous Broca’s claim was.

January 16, 2009 11:28 am
Ned on paragraph 2:

my initial reaction to this quote was that i thought that the idea women are not as smart as men it is saying that the women that are not proven that they are not as smart as men. the use of this quote helps to argue the point of the author is trying to make. I would respond to it by saying that the idea is right and that the idea that women are worse then men is wrong.

January 16, 2009 11:28 am
Loretta on paragraph 2:

I don’t think there is a way to scientifically prove that women are less intelligent and less competent, and in no way am I implying that they are. Gould might have used this as some way to introduce Broca’s theory of women being less intelligent because of brain size, which is a scientific method.

January 16, 2009 11:28 am
ape36 on paragraph 7:

This is one of the strongest parts of Gould’s essay in my opinion because he displays the largest problem with Broca’s argument: Broca uses his idea that women are less intelligent than men to try to prove that women are less intelligent than men. That doesn’t make any sense.

January 16, 2009 11:29 am
Jacob on paragraph 2:

This quote is hard to interpret at first. However, the author makes a good point about how it is unfair to have prejudices built about woman because there is no magical test that shows woman to be less intelligent than men. I think Gould uses it to show that there is nothing at all to back up these prejudices.

January 16, 2009 11:29 am
aznINVazn on paragraph 24:

I find the metaphor of a cygnet and ducklings “in a brown pond” interesting. I agree that “here and there” a cygnet is born, but I believe that it is more often than we perceive. Legacies are created by living after death in the minds and memories of future people, and the reasons behind how and why people are remembered are responsible for their success, intelligence, or anything worth remembering.

With this in mind, I believe that women are not given as significant recognition as men, thus making them less remembered. Because of this, we don’t realize how many cygnets we’re surrounded by and have been surrounded by.

January 16, 2009 11:30 am
Lena C. on paragraph 5:

As a woman this quote strikes a sour chord with me. The fact that “theologians had asked if women had a soul,” is absurd. Without women in history, the human race would simply cease. The purpose behind this quote is to display how all throughout history women and their mind’s have been suppressed. Woman were taught to have submissive minds. I would tell the writer of this passage that the fact that, “some scientists were ready to refuse” women the minds that God has given them is shocking.

January 16, 2009 11:31 am
Erin on paragraph 7:

This person not offer any evidence for their assertions aside from the fact that men are generally physically larger than women. It doesn’t have anything to offer for where this conclusion came from.

January 16, 2009 11:31 am
ape36 on paragraph 9:

It is just obnoxious to say that women’s “role” is to raise kids, love, and be passive. Is it not men’s role to raise kids and to love? Can only women love? And if it is up to women to raise kids and to love, how is it that the man “has all the responsibility”?

January 16, 2009 11:32 am
Hirut on paragraph 2:

My initial response to this quote was confusion because I couldn’t believe that anyone could think like this. But Elliot is right in the fact that there is in fact no scientific way to prove that women are in any way less intelligent than man or that the reason they have “blundering lives” is due to their less than competent minds. Gould is using this quote because there is no foundation in saying that women had less than perfect lives because they were essentially ‘dumb’.

January 16, 2009 11:33 am
Vicky on paragraph 5:

Gould included this quote to paint a picture about what was facing women everyday. I liked how the quote started with, “Women displayed their talents and their diplomas.” This shows that its not easy to change an embedded perspective.

January 16, 2009 11:33 am
Mollie on paragraph 5:

I would probably respond to Manouvrier with a very big handshake.

January 16, 2009 11:34 am
cnieman on paragraph 5:

I agree that philosophy and thought side with the intelligence of women. I don’t really see how that this mode of thought could lead to the denigration of women on a “scientific” basis.

January 16, 2009 11:34 am
Erin on paragraph 9:

This is disgusting. The woman described here is just a piece of property who doesn’t have any real role. I would respond by saying that women’s responsibilities take just as much intelligence if not more.

January 16, 2009 11:34 am
Kyla on paragraph 5:

This quote shows the extremities of what men have thought through out history. The only audience which would percieve this as true would be misogynists or sexists. This quote is used to show how absurd these beliefs were.

January 16, 2009 11:35 am
Sam Cole on whole page :

I think that this quote makes the mistake of assuming that there is a worldwide conception that every male in the world believes women are useless. I think that it could be used, however, to set the tone for the kind of argument she is going to be making later on in the writing piece. I would have to say to this person, that although this quote is a little bit extreme, there is some truth behind it, and the problem is very well worded.

January 16, 2009 11:35 am
Ryan on paragraph 7:

So, pretty much the taller you are the more intelligent you are. If only I was Yao Ming…

January 16, 2009 11:35 am
Jacob on paragraph 7:

I think this quote is amusing because it shows what may at some point have been considered a “liberal” view. However, this author is just basically pulling random ideas out of the air and trying to use them to justify his prejudice. However, in reality this “scientific” theory makes very little sense.

January 16, 2009 11:36 am
G on paragraph 2:

edublogs is judgemental

I liked the contrast between Manouvrier and Broca here. M. wrote with a definite emotion and feeling; he backed up his claims with pathos. He talks about the effects of the “numbers” of Broca on the egos of the women – “These numbers fell upon poor women like a sledge hammer,” he said. I think that Gould used this quote to provide a contrast between the strong opinions that this topic elicits.

January 16, 2009 11:36 am
Virginia on paragraph 5:

L. Manouvrier understood that numbers, when misinterpreted, cannot be used to prove anything. It is ridiculous that theologians even questioned whether or not women have souls, even though this could be caused by the story of Adam and Eve, that represented women as weaker in morals.

January 16, 2009 11:36 am
Mollie on paragraph 2:

By initial reaction is that I was certainly not created inferior by “the Supreme Power” I think Gold uses this quote to introduce that there is no scientific way yet to prove that women are inferior: it’s all merely speculation. I would respond to this person by counting to four.

January 16, 2009 11:37 am
Mollie on paragraph 7:

M initial reaction to this quote is that it is completely unscientific. He’s making a claim based on research that he did on do and data he does not have. This quote is not even a conclusion based on hypotheses, it is a claim. I think Gould uses this quote to show Broca’s ridiculous superiority complex, bias, and unscientific conclusions. I would probably tell all of that to Broca, and then teach him calculous.

January 16, 2009 11:41 am
ape36 on paragraph 2:

It is true that prejudice women have faced isn’t because women are less intelligent, it is because people think women are less intelligent than men. It isn’t women’s nature to have “blundering lives.”

January 16, 2009 11:44 am
Mollie on paragraph 9:

My first reaction is that this man is looking at a bias aspect of history. Sparta had women very high in society, in charge of government and social aspects. The Bible, which he would have been culturally aware of, has many women who play key roles in society and government. ALl major European nations had Queens that ruled government, religion, and society. I think Gould uses this quote to introduce the bias of Broca in everything. I wold respond to him by bringing him to Egypt to see Cleopatra’s empire.

January 16, 2009 11:52 am

[...] Brains.” Go through it once in this format and then we’ll use my patented AP Texts site to comment directly on at least 5 paragraphs we see in this essay. After you comment, write a short [...]

January 5, 2010 9:54 am
Hannah Stoeve on paragraph 10:

It is weird to me that Gould calls Le Bon Broca’s “chief misogynist” as if it were some kind of important title. It may be a way of influencing readers to dislike Le Bon (as if the quote wasn’t enough) but I think it is very childish and makes me think less of Gould and his paper.

January 5, 2010 11:23 am
Luke Tchao :

This was exactly what I was thinking upon reading this paragraph. Gould’s use of this condescending comment detracts from this ETHOS, PATHOS, and LOGOS. In an essay where you are trying to make a point, especially in a scientific essay, it is of utmost importance to sound as a rational thinker.

January 5, 2010 2:20 pm
Hannah Stoeve on paragraph 4:

Okay, I understand that Broca’s argument is extremely offensive to women, but c’mon. It has been about two hundred years and I think it is time to move on. Gould spending this whole essay arguing the specific grams of women’s brains vs. men’s brains actually validates Broca’s ridiculous idea that brain size equals intelligence. Gould makes just as bold an assumption as Broca- that women ARE just as intelligent. Both arguments are based on data unrelated to the actual question at hand. How annoying.

January 5, 2010 11:32 am
Kevin Dowd on paragraph 6:

It seems extremely counterproductive that Gould spent this entire essay writing about the size of people’s brains, without addressing the issue of whether brain size and intelligence are at all related.

January 5, 2010 11:33 am
Samuel! on paragraph 2:

It’s almost like the latter part of the quote is asking how we would define the natures of women. George Elliot says that if it were cut and dry as with the “incompetence as strict as the ability to count three and no more,” then it would be more scientifically justifiable. But obviously, that isn’t the case.

January 5, 2010 11:33 am
Alina on paragraph 7:

This evidence is probably the most convincing of Gould’s argument- it makes Broca look like a self-righteous idiot, contrasting with Broca’s reputed, completely accepted convictions. The reader cannot help but be immediately won over to Gould’s views.

January 5, 2010 11:35 am
Kevin Dowd on paragraph 19:

It sort of seems to me that Gould is almost trying too hard to prove his point that women and men have equal sized brains. Considering that men are, on average, bigger than women, it stands to reason that their brains would be correspondingly bigger. Does this mean men are more intelligent? Of course. Just kidding, trying to make future readers angry…no it doesn’t at all.

January 5, 2010 11:35 am
Alex on paragraph 2:

It seems intelligent of Gould to reference George Eliot. Though he does not outright state his thesis from the beginning, the fact that he is using passages from this famous woman author goes to refute the scientific information he later expounds on. By using George Eliot’s quote, not only does he utilize the message of her words–that some feel as if women are naturally and scientifically less intellectually endowed than men–but also contrasts with the later ideas of Broca.

January 5, 2010 11:36 am
Chloe on paragraph 7:

Gould uses this quote to show that Broca’s “scientific” rationalities are mainly created out of his presupposed opinions of women’s intelligence. Broca writes, “But we must not forget that women are, on the average, a little less intelligent than men, a difference which we should not exaggerate but which is, nonetheless, real.” His claim here that women are not intelligent is entirely his opinion– nowhere near the sentence is there any scientific data (including his own) to back up the statement.

January 5, 2010 11:37 am
Jackie on paragraph 13:

In this day, this quote is just widely seen as preposterous. Its almost as if Broca was scared that his toast and eggs in the morning would not be cooked if women were allowed to have an equal education. In fact, a smart woman? OH god! He is threatened possibly cause he knows that there is no way he is right. Maybe, just maybe, he should learn to cook his own breakfast and suck it up.

January 5, 2010 11:37 am
Hannah Stoeve on paragraph 23:

What is this essay even about? George Eliot’s amazing ability to understand hurt feelings? Thanks Gould, for your completely irrelevant writing. You have proved nothing…at least Broca had a point.

January 5, 2010 11:37 am
Pamela on paragraph 4:

It’s interesting how Gould began this paragraph by showing his readers all of the things that made Broca a credible researcher and a significant contribution to this discussion. However, Gould’s point is in fact to undermine Broca’s research and conclusions, and prove that Broca was ridiculous in assuming that a difference in size between men’s and women’s brains was equivalent to a significant difference in intelligence. Gould is telling us that while Broca’s work could not be refuted, it was purely based in scientific fact, and therefore could easily be misinterpreted. That misinterpretation did in fact occur, which led Broca to his conclusion that women couldn’t possibly be as smart as men, because their brains are smaller.

January 5, 2010 11:38 am
ape13 on paragraph 7:

I think it’s effective how he places his argument before the quote, asserting that Broca “made no attempt to measure the effect of size alone”. Placing the disclaimer before the quote calls the reader to read the quote with doubt and the specific criticism in their mind.

January 5, 2010 11:38 am
Kevin Dowd on paragraph 13:

I hope I can one day use the phrase “dangerous chimera” as an adjective. I don’t really understand Le Bon’s argument here. He seems to be saying that getting an education would make women much less devoted to their families, which seems like an extreme negative. He doesn’t make it sound like an education is something you would want.

January 5, 2010 11:38 am
Samuel! :

This quote wasn’t Le Bon’s argument. This is what the American reformers bounced back at him for saying that female brains were closer to those of gorilla’s than anything else.

January 5, 2010 11:47 am
Carrie Easton on paragraph 4:

While the topic matter at hand is extremely incendiary (look at some of the comments here!) Gould seems very neutral here at first in my opinion, starting out without saying whether or not he’s arguing for or against this. I didn’t assume that he was arguing for Broca – he makes a point of saying that while his numbers are sound they specify nothing, and merely elaborates on the quote given. Also of note is the fact he uses “Broca argued” – he never once says that it’s his viewpoint.

January 5, 2010 11:39 am
Alina on paragraph 10:

Gould continues to attack the people themselves, labeling Le Bon with the pompous title of ‘chief misogynist’. Again, he is shredding credibility of the scientists, which in this case is extremely effective rhetoric.

January 5, 2010 11:39 am
Samuel! on paragraph 5:

This further pushes the argument that many assumptions were made from simply numbers without careful analysis. This fails, obviously, since the scientific method relies as much on analysis as it does on numbers.

January 5, 2010 11:39 am
ape13 on paragraph 2:

Interesting to start a generally scientific paper with a more dramatic piece from the time in question. It highlights how this issue is not merely one disputed in the scientific field but one expounded in literature as well.

January 5, 2010 11:40 am
Alex on paragraph 6:

I thought this was a very good introductory paragraph for the following quote. By first using his own words and opinion to explain Broca’s text, Gould makes it so when the readers actually encounter the text themselves, they will be more liable to agree with Gould. Providing an analysis before the quote rather than after seems effective.

January 5, 2010 11:40 am
Miles on paragraph 8:

“[D]iffering evolutionary pressures” seems like just an interesting way of saying gender roles, but I don’t think there’s any way that could be correct. It seems to me like over time, gender roles have become less defined (though defined nonetheless) which should make the discrepancy in “cranial capacities” -which I can hardly even think about with a straight face- become smaller over time! What’s even more ridiculous is that between the two stereotypical roles (the big, strong hunter and the caring, nurturing child-bearer) intelligence would be more important for the woman! By the process of natural selection we should be ending up with increasingly intelligent people all the time, and it seems like this would be the most obvious in women, but I guess might really does make right.

January 5, 2010 11:41 am
miko on paragraph 4:

Gould does a good job of setting up for his quote by introducing Broca as an esteemed scientist and researcher, but then goes on to say he respects his procedure. This is helpful to the reader because it shows that he is not simply biased and hates him for his conclusions, but is reasonable and seems to know his facts about a man he is going to refute. This gives him credibility and ethos, so we as the reader do not just dismiss him as an angry critic of this man’s research. He is also setting up some arguments from the opposing viewpoint, which he will later meticulously pick apart.

January 5, 2010 11:41 am
Jackie on paragraph 4:

I think its funny that Gould feels the need to say he thinks Broca’s work is simply amazing. Cause it is quite apparent he feels the exact opposite. Since he has decided to go all out and completely contradict Broca, a gentlemanly statement seems a bit snooty. Like saying “Oh, good game, nice try, but I still creamed you.”

January 5, 2010 11:42 am
Samuel! on paragraph 7:

Alright, so the surveyors have begun analyzing their numbers if ever so slightly rather than just collecting head measurements. But their analysis is drastically skewed by their preconceptions. Classic circular argument.

January 5, 2010 11:42 am
Pamela on paragraph 7:

Again, Broca proves how ridiculous he is when it comes to making conclusions based on scientific data and research. Just because women are on average smaller in physical stature than men doesn’t mean that their brains are therefore smaller. The fact that Broca writes, “We are therefore permitted to suppose that the relatively small size of the female brain depends in part upon her physical inferiority and…her intellectual inferiority” proves to me that he is allowing his prejudices to interfere with his research.

January 5, 2010 11:42 am
ape13 on paragraph 9:

Effective to cite Broca’s student; it shows that Broca wasn’t an isolated professor with a lot of opinions. Topinard also holds an opinion that remained pervasive through most of the 20th century as well, and perhaps draws the reader to see how the dominant/passive argument still exists but has faded out of science.

January 5, 2010 11:42 am
salem on paragraph 9:

Thats the biggest crap i’ve ever heard. Women fight just as hard and probably even harder to survive in a place thats “dominated” by males. With out the women men are nothing, we take car of them, we raise their children, and do them once in a while to keep them satisfied; even when were not. Females have worked hard to keep their place in corporate America and go beyond being a secretary, nurse, or teacher, we might have smaller brains but we aren’t inferior.

January 5, 2010 11:43 am
ape24 on paragraph 15:

This paragraph provides Gould’s skepticism on Broca’s data, thinking it might have been tampered with. Gould is right to question it, as Broca only used 15 subjects for his study to base all his claims off off. “Never have so little data yielded such far ranging conclusions,” is puts Broca’s entire research study into question, as any scientist should do. It seems as if Broca, which is mentioned later on in the paper, is manipulating the data by providing biased samples.

January 5, 2010 11:43 am
Alina on paragraph 17:

I find the beginning of this paragraph awkward and unhelpful to Gould’s argument. He introduces the paragraph by saying he doesn’t know what to make of the remaining difference, but then adds some possible reasons and factors. Although what he says makes sense later, starting of a rhetorical paragraph with “I don’t know” really takes from his credibility- it not only makes him sound less knowledgeable but also it is informal and sounds less educated.

January 5, 2010 11:44 am
Alex on paragraph 10:

Gould does a good job of doing ad hominem attacks in ways that don’t make him seem like he’s being too vitriolic. If he were to have just called Le Bon the “chief misogynist,” and left it at that, he would undoubtedly have sounded too vitriolic and untrustworthy. However, by following this with the qualitative claim “I do not claim his views were representative of Broca’s school,” he makes himself appear reasonable and rationale–someone who can take a step back and look at the situation as a whole–and so the previous insult also seems more reasonable.

January 5, 2010 11:44 am
Samuel! on paragraph 9:

Gould includes this quote that contains an extreme argument in order to show how radical and appalling the other side is. Also, the quote in itself assumes that the woman has no responsibilities whatsoever, and therefore does not have the brain capacity for much at all.

January 5, 2010 11:45 am
Pamela on paragraph 13:

I really don’t understand Le Bon’s logic here. He’s saying that since women are obviously much less intelligent than men, we should absolutely shy away from giving them an education equal to or – God forbid! – surpassing that of men. So, since women aren’t as smart, we should just not bother to try to make them smarter, so that our world can be smarter as a result. This argument makes no sense to me at all.

January 5, 2010 11:45 am
Miles on paragraph 9:

This is such an obviously biased view of things that I can’t believe even men who were convinced they were dominant believed it. I think depending on your views it’s easy to twist the “who needs brains more” argument either way, but in reality either party would be significantly better off (and therefore likelier to have healthier, more intelligent offspring) if they’re smart.

January 5, 2010 11:45 am
Colleen on paragraph 5:

With this quote, Manouvrier points out that the numbers don’t really show anything, which is what Gould is also trying to show. He says that women have proved that they are intelligent but now without really making any sense Broca is trying to deny them their intelligence and for some reason their souls. Basically he didn’t have a very intelligent argument.

January 5, 2010 11:46 am
Apes20 on paragraph 4:

I like the way Gould goes about this paragraph when referring to Broca’s “scrupulous care and accuracy.” Well Broca had to be correct, right? Gould then points out that the numbers don’t mean anything until you do something with them. Broca just found a trend and assumed something.

January 5, 2010 11:46 am
ape24 on paragraph 15:

Broca’s data is flimsy to say the least, and Gould brings that to light in this paragraph. Using only 15 subjects for such a broad ranging study is ridiculous. “Never have so little data yielded such far ranging conclusions,” is a good summary of Broca’s data. Broca has little scientific credibility for this study.

January 5, 2010 11:47 am
Pamela on paragraph 15:

I applaud Gould here for stepping up and completely revoking any and all of Broca’s conclusions. Gould points out the fact that Broca’s sample size was so small that there is no feasible way any data taken could be stastically significant in the slightest. Like Gould writes, we can never draw “such far ranging conclusions” from so little data (only 13 observations!).

January 5, 2010 11:47 am
Paulette on paragraph 20:

I think this paragraph is trying to say that Broca’s data is not prejudiced against a single group, but the thing is, this entire theory is stating that women are overall disadvantaged.

January 5, 2010 11:48 am
Alex on paragraph 17:

Though what he is saying is very clear and cogent, the lack of scientific information makes it slightly harder to believe–”we may assume that…” makes the argument sound weaker and less supported. Who actually knows how may of these women had degenerative diseases? The is the possibility that none of them did, even if unlikely. To me it seems that without the actual information, Gould should have left out this argument.

January 5, 2010 11:48 am
Chloe on paragraph 11:

I agree with one of the commentors up there. I think this man had his heart broken by a women and thus has a deep hatred toward all females.

January 5, 2010 11:48 am
ape13 on paragraph 13:

This one isn’t necessarily as effective. Gould basically states Le Bon’s opinion, then shows the quote that agrees, then asks a rhetorical question. There’s nothing wrong with this, but there’s already enough quotes about the social status of women for the reader to get the point.

January 5, 2010 11:49 am
Hannah Stoeve on paragraph 19:

If Broca’s data “certainly don’t permit any confident claim that men have bigger brains than women,” then why has Gouldy spent all 19 paragraphs refuting this. As much as I appreciating him finding that the gram difference between my brain and a man’s is closer to zero, it doesn’t mean anything. It is useless research.
A bigger clue to women’s equal or superior intelligence is that fact that I realize this and Gould does not.

January 5, 2010 11:49 am
Colleen on paragraph 19:

I’m not sure why Gould spent all that time trying to explain the height vs weight vs brain size stuff when in the end he just says that we’re not going to tell a shorter man that he is less smart than a taller man. Basically this just makes Broca’s argument of brian size not work at all. Why couldn’t he have said that earlier?

January 5, 2010 11:49 am
Apes20 on paragraph 6:

The last sentence makes me want to scream. You dont form a hypothesis to fit your data, you test your hypothesis and hope the data supports it. If not, try again.

January 5, 2010 11:50 am
Chloe on paragraph 13:

Gould chose this quote to show some of the specific prejudice people, such as Le Bon and Broca, had against women. All throughout the article, Gould is talking about how women are prejudiced against, but he doesn’t give any reasons why, just the fact that they are women. Gould uses this quote to clarify the main reason why the male majority refused to acknowledge that women might be as smart as men.

January 5, 2010 11:50 am
Pamela on paragraph 19:

I like how in this paragraph, Gould sums up his data as described in preceding paragraphs and draws an accurate, feasible conclusion. He is doing the exact same thing that Broca did – taking data and research to draw a large conclusion – but Gould is doing it the right way. Gould not only looked at his only data from studies, but he also accomodated the data to account for average physical differences between men and women.

January 5, 2010 11:50 am
Hannah Stoeve on paragraph 3:

What? This is a long, boring, awkward, random transition. Bad start.

January 5, 2010 11:52 am
Britt on paragraph 11:

Where did this derive from? If this is truly what he believes, he must have been around some stupid women in his life time. But still, to relate half of the population to gorillas is, for lack of a better word, disgusting. Obviously he is a misogynist, so therefore he prefers men, himself included. But if half the genetic makeup of men is given by women, therefore he is calling all men inferior. Including himself. Before he can complain about how unimportant women are, why not find a way for a man to have a child? Also half of women is from men, so in some cases they must pass on the idiocy. So, if we are dumb, men are half of the blame.

January 5, 2010 11:55 am
Pamela on paragraph 24:

I appreciate Gould using Eliot’s quote at the end of the article like this. It concisely sums up the big ideas in this article: that women are vastly more varied in stature, intelligence, et cetera than men give them credit for. Eliot is telling us that just because women may dress the same or have similar interests doesn’t mean that they are all clones and can’t possibly be intelligent in the slightest.

January 5, 2010 12:10 pm
salem on paragraph 17:

we know that women’s brains are smaller, the diseases you get sometimes depends on your gender there’s some disease that only men can get. Just gets the information and it doesn’t seem like he’s not reviewing it and just concludes it.

January 5, 2010 12:15 pm
Max Piazza on paragraph 19:

Moreover, the correlation between brain size and actual intelligence is not absolute. Even if there WAS a connection between gender and brain volume, this wouldn’t really have any implications on which gender is more intelligent.

January 5, 2010 2:00 pm
Max Piazza on paragraph 10:

Aristotle, by the way, said

“The female is as it were a deformed male.

The male is by nature superior, and the female inferior; and the one rules, and the other is ruled.”

January 5, 2010 2:08 pm
Sylvia on paragraph 9:

I wonder if I were a woman living in this time period if I would agree with the gender roles society set up for me.

January 5, 2010 2:08 pm
Max Piazza on paragraph 1:

Great hook!

January 5, 2010 2:09 pm
Sylvia on paragraph 4:

The “black sheep” in Broca’s society protesting against the unfair treatment of women would be like a person protesting against equal rights for gay people in Seattle. This man must have been truly courageous, and I am glad that in the end… or at least the 21st century, his views were the ones that prevailed.

January 5, 2010 2:11 pm
Wuen on paragraph 11:

This paragraph makes me wonder, who came up with the idea that bigger means better? The finding that the male’s brain is larger does not imply anything except for the fact that they carry more mass in their cranium, which may actually cause them to be more dense. Pun intended.

January 5, 2010 2:11 pm
Max Piazza on paragraph 16:

100 grams is almost an inconclusively small amount

http://www.mikesfalconry.com/images/products/3010.jpg

January 5, 2010 2:12 pm
Ny on paragraph 3:

What’s caused the measurement of the human body to be a less fashionable field?

January 5, 2010 2:12 pm
Eric Blakeway on paragraph 18:

I find it interesting that women actually came out ahead in brain size. However, the fact the great part of Manouvrier’s assumptions are based on brain size is startling because brain size has nothing to do with actual intelligence. In the brain, the folds are far more important than how than the size of the brain.

January 5, 2010 2:13 pm
arual rotsop on paragraph 20:

I believe that this paragraph was written with the intention to somewhat ‘justify’ Broca’s arguments and research. It is possible that Broca’s research was not intended to specifically attack women, however it was much more plausible for him to gather such information which resulted in women receiving the ‘brunt’ of his scientific conclusions. Broca’s research was not done to make such harsh accusations against certain social groups, yet it can be understood ultimately as the cause to their disadvantages.

January 5, 2010 2:14 pm
Wuen on paragraph 16:

I wonder how closely the weight of the brains of a man and a women with height, health and stature would correlate? Perhaps this finding would debunk the idea that males are superior to females.

January 5, 2010 2:14 pm
Senie on paragraph 2:

Reading over Willa’s comment, it seems to me she really understood the point of the quote. The presence of confirmation bias and social role within society has for hundreds of years given women even the most subtle disadvantages.

January 5, 2010 2:14 pm
Marianne on paragraph 5:

Sounds like everybody’s ganging up on females and being haters. With the brains and the whole soul thing. I’m curious when Manouvrier wrote this little blurb because I would assume if it was a long time ago, I doubt that women really got much diplomas and chances to display their talents. When now, not only do we see the equality, there’s so many chances for females to demonstrate their equality, so we sort of have to accept it.

January 5, 2010 2:15 pm
Andre Springman on paragraph 2:

This is an interesting beginning to a research paper. It appears to be a comment that shows some archaic understanding towards the role of women and shows that their public perception is felt as an item meant to live a life with out quality and not to be considered as equals to men by using science.

January 5, 2010 2:15 pm
Ny on paragraph 5:

JERKS!–the theologists that is.
Good word choice though.

January 5, 2010 2:16 pm
=) on paragraph 2:

It is interesting he chooses to quote George Elliot before going into his own thesis, but I think it works…thats all i have to say for this

January 5, 2010 2:16 pm
Alex RATTRAY on paragraph 1:

This opening paragraph doesn’t communicate much except that the author expects the reader to at least be familiar with Middlemarch and/or George Elliot. Seeing as I don’t know the book or the author, I can’t really draw any conclusions about what this means, but it probably means something!

January 5, 2010 2:16 pm
Phoebe Herland on paragraph 23:

In this paragraph Gould concludes that the data was irrelevant, which consequently gave the article a point. Before this the essay seemed like a mere summary, but finally Gould gets to the implications of the data. I particularly like how he relies on a woman to express it. (I cannot match her prose)!

January 5, 2010 2:16 pm
Kane on paragraph 21:

This is a clever ploy by Gould, he is presenting the same premise that Broca used, but swapping it so that women’s brains are now bigger. After presenting this claim, he quickly tears down both arguments in paragraph 23 by pointing out that brain size is not directly coordinated with intelligence.

January 5, 2010 2:17 pm
Devon on paragraph 7:

“Women are, on the average, a little less intelligent than men, a difference which we should not exaggerate but which is, nonetheless, real.” Well, since we know that…but we don’t. Mental inferiority has not been proven. Broca is attempting to convince the reader of a link between brain size and intelligence by stating a belief as a fact, belittling the reader to believe, “if he’s so sure, he must be right!”

No.

January 5, 2010 2:17 pm
Sylvia on paragraph 21:

Intelligent women are monstrosities?! It’s funny that today advanced classes are often more full of female students than male students. Nice try, Broca.

January 5, 2010 2:17 pm
Max Piazza on paragraph 13:

This is basically the same reactionary argument you always hear to argue against social progress of any kind – “if we start doing (x progressive thing), the life as we know it will fall apart”

What’s sad is that this conclusion was supposedly based on scientific evidence. This is a powerful example of the dangers of bad science that is conducted in order to prove a conclusion rather than draw conclusions from data.

January 5, 2010 2:18 pm
Lauren on paragraph 20:

Gould states, “we must recognize that his statements about the brains of women do not reflect an isolated prejudice toward a single disadvantaged group.” It is not that Broca chose to single out women in general, is it that women’s brains were what he had data. It is interesting that he found that women “stood as surrogates for other disenfranchised groups.”

January 5, 2010 2:18 pm
blake on paragraph 23:

This is the most effective way for Gould to end his essay. By admitting that a female author can state something more eloquently that he, Gould strongly proves that women deserve academic credit.

January 5, 2010 2:18 pm
segdirbdys on paragraph 7:

The author of the essay sets up this quote well with how he prepped the reader to notice specific details and criticisms of Topinard’s excerpt, but he doesn’t spend enough time analyzing the quote; he mostly just gives out information and then stuns the reader with Topinard’s bit. Topinard’s argument seems circular and desperate. Like Gould said, “a premise that the data were supposed to test, not rest upon.” …uhh

January 5, 2010 2:18 pm
Katy on paragraph 3:

How is it possible to measure intelligence based on the size of a persons skull, or weight of their brain? Intelligence alone is widely disputed with theories of IQ and multiple intelligences. Assumptions based of this data may vary completely depending on which measurements of intelligence is assumed correct. If comparing brain sizes while considering multiple intelligences, there would also need to be research comparing all 8 different types of intelligences. Different intelligence access different parts of the brain, which weigh different amounts. This leaves the theory of brain size being proportionate to intelligence inaccurate in the theory of multiple intelligences.

January 5, 2010 2:19 pm
Marianne on paragraph 8:

There’s a perfectly good reason for this. Back in the olden days, everybody had to go out and hunt and find food and scavenge. Everybody was just really strong and able-bodied or else you die. When if you have today, females usually are less athletic than males and since society really pressures females to be more docile and not as …the only word that I can think of is big than men. It’s all society’s fault really

January 5, 2010 2:19 pm
segdirbdys on paragraph 24:

Finish your own essay!!!!!!!!!!

January 5, 2010 2:19 pm
Kane on paragraph 22:

niiice quotations marks on “scientific”, makes them seem… unscientific. Which primes the reader for the next paragraph where Gould argues that the experiment’s premise is flawed

January 5, 2010 2:19 pm
Ny on paragraph 6:

Thank you APES20. Agreed. Completely dreadful.
Males so have not increased their superiority through time, I mean they have previously, but it’s going the other way now. Things are becoming more equal, females are beginning to have more power and authority. Women are just as intelligent as men.

January 5, 2010 2:20 pm
laura r on paragraph 9:

He shouldn’t have connected raising children with being passive. I think Topinard should read Toni Morrison and Zora Neale Hurston and so many other stories about how strong women are. It’s too bad he died before he could.

January 5, 2010 2:20 pm
Joe Gladow on paragraph 6:

Circular argument! Uses the justification that he’s trying to prove in order to prove the argument that women are inferior. I’ve always been surprised by the failures of older scientists to follow the scientific method when there errors seem so simple now.

January 5, 2010 2:20 pm
Eric Blakeway on paragraph 6:

I find it interesting that the author mentions brain size when trying to show how Broca’s study was ultimately flawed. For one thing, it is something anyone who has studied basic anatomy knows about the brain. This is the fact that brain size has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence.

January 5, 2010 2:21 pm
=) on paragraph 6:

He speaks in paragraph 4 that one cannot bend the truth yet he seems to be bending the truth (not taking into account height age etc.) in his results to get the answer he wants to believe are true, which are not! Dislike.

January 5, 2010 2:21 pm
Sarah on paragraph 5:

Women have, indeed, “displayed their talents and their diplomas”. Us women have been misunderstood, and underestimated just because we do not have a “heavy head”. Even considering us as not consisting “human intelligence” is stupid. We are human. However, the “scientific” part, doesn’t really make any sense.

January 5, 2010 2:21 pm
Senie on paragraph 4:

I really like the quote
“there is no faith, however respectable, no interest, however
legitimate, which must not accommodate itself to the
progress of human knowledge and bend before truth.”

the problem is that truth is so subjective, the same data can be interpreted in different ways. he made assumptions based on his data, without accounting for the fact that his data collection or interpretation might have been biased or the data itself flawed.

January 5, 2010 2:22 pm
Taylor on paragraph 16:

Gould addresses the key factors of brain size, which are age and height. This is very useful in refuting Broca’s initial claims that size alone is the only factor because brain size is based on many factors. Age and height other factors of brain size, which need to be considered as well. This is an effective use of data to refute Broca’s claims.

January 5, 2010 2:22 pm
Alex RATTRAY on paragraph 8:

I find it interesting that the cited data was not refuted until much later on in the essay. Gould may have been building up the opponent’s case to tear it all down at once, or perhaps it was merely organizational; he wanted to cite the following quote as quickly as he could.

January 5, 2010 2:22 pm
Brian on paragraph 4:

Gould really breaks down Broca’s argument about brain size = intelligence level. He made it clear that Broca’s numbers (ie research data) was correct, but the conclusion he came to was pretty ridiculous and couldn’t really be proven with the data that he had.

January 5, 2010 2:22 pm
Lauren on paragraph 7:

Where is Broca’s logic? He says that because women are smaller, they are intellectually inferior to men…. What? In his paragraph he shows no proof of this. He just comes right out and says that “women are, on the average, a little less intelligent than men, a difference which we should not exaggerate but which is nonetheless, real.”

January 5, 2010 2:23 pm
Ny on paragraph 7:

“But we must not forget that women are, on the average, a little less intelligent than men, a difference which we should not exaggerate but which is, nonetheless, real.” UGHHHHH! That is completely untrue, and completely inaccurate. The difference in brain size is already exaggerated, and it is not even close to being real. It would also be nice if he’d give some REAL evidence on this.

January 5, 2010 2:23 pm
Phoebe Herland on paragraph 3:

I like the last part of this paragraph starting with “Their work, so meticulous…” mostly because it sounds cool, but it also plays a very important role in the readers understanding. It digests the rest of the paragraph for us and delivers the point.

January 5, 2010 2:23 pm
Wuen on paragraph 21:

Maria Montessori’s conclusion was drawn from two sources, and I approve. Firstly, rather than just assuming that larger brains equate superiority such as Gustav Le Bon did, actually backed her conclusion based on her own findings from drawing a correlation between cranial circumference and the potential of her students. Secondly, she used the data provided by a scientist; and therefore I find her conclusion more convincing.

January 5, 2010 2:24 pm
Anup on paragraph 7:

This reflects how much times have changed; at the time that Broca was conducting his research, not only was it considered common sense that women were inferior to men, but people lacked the knowledge we have today, including the fact that there must be constants in a scientific experiment.
For someone today reading this sort of “logic,” all we can say is….AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

January 5, 2010 2:24 pm
Andre Springman on paragraph 21:

It is interesting to see how Montessori used Broca’s measurements to determine the academic success rate of her students. But considering that science and neuroscience has evolved significantly in modern days the original methods seem reasonable to determine this information. In the modern day education world it is fairly difficult to assess academic performance and success rates so while that theory is no longer accepted as truth it is probable that in the future standardized tests and IQ tests may be removed from the school system after new systems are found.

January 5, 2010 2:24 pm
Marianne on paragraph 11:

That’s some sexist stuff right there. I was a little bit surprised that at the end, Le Bon admitted that there are “some distinguished women, very superior to the average man”. Seems like it was added as an afterthought to the whole spiel about women being like gorillas. Like he was angry at first, but then remembered his mom or something and out of great love for her, said that there are some distinguished ones.

January 5, 2010 2:25 pm
Alex RATTRAY on paragraph 14:

Is he referring to Bill O’Reilly or something? What is this supposed to remind me of? I’d like to find out. This sentence indicates that the author is battling modern conceptions in this essay rather than historical errors.

January 5, 2010 2:25 pm
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January 5, 2010 2:25 pm
Sylvia Hadnot on paragraph 18:

Well, way to toot your horn for nothing, Broca. His so called “evidence” was actually just logical fallacy. He used the data he found to support a finding that he believed too zealously in to be an appropriate researcher on the topic. Like the author of the essay said before, of course the weight of a brain affects the intelligent of the holder of the brain; we already know that women are less intelligent, so since their brains are smaller, those with the largest brains must be the most intelligent. But, when rid of all discrepancies, like in height and weight, brain size would be equal, maybe women would even be ahead.

January 5, 2010 2:25 pm
Senie on paragraph 9:

I thought this quote is really interesting, because it brings up the question whether inferior intelligence is actually an evolutionary advantage. And if it is true, is it because men prefer stupider women? and if they do prefer stupider women, then is there an evolutionary reason for that? is only a certain degree or type of intelligence ideal for raising maximum reproductively healthy children?

January 5, 2010 2:26 pm
Sarah on paragraph 14:

This sounds like something I would say. But yeah! It sounds familiar. People fought for their rights. They will continue to fight.

January 5, 2010 2:26 pm
Devon on paragraph 8:

What kind of a man sets up a biased test in order to get faulty, sexist results?! Broca’s data set was ridiculously small. He selected considerably older women than men and a group that ranged dramatically in height–skewing the results.

Seems like he is trying to compensate for something.

January 5, 2010 2:26 pm
Ny on paragraph 9:

Okay, first of all, women are caring for themselves now. Men aren’t the only ones who need it. And since when are women supposed to ONLY do that??? This is the 21st century for Pete’s sake. Women are capable of whatever men are. Men can take on that role too.

January 5, 2010 2:26 pm
Katy on paragraph 7:

If he is considering “physical inferiority” to be linked with intellectual inferiority, he should have measured different body times in men and women. Not all men are tall and muscular, not all women are short and “inferior”. The clearly bias experiment proves nothing if a variety of variables are not considered.

January 5, 2010 2:27 pm
blake on paragraph 21:

This seems to be the basis of modern science: take previous research you agree with, make it your own, and forget about anything that doesn’t suit your purpose. Montessori is not less guilty than Broca in that her research is biased to support her own political views. She took Broca’s research on head size being related to increased intelligence, but concluded that force and size were irrelevant to intelligence.
What ever happened to objective science?

January 5, 2010 2:27 pm
David-changsoo Kim on paragraph 2:

I agree with this quote. The measurements of intelligence were created by humans themselves, making the criteria of intelligence a definition of what WE want it to be. This shows we cannot prove the difference of intelligence between men and women.

January 5, 2010 2:27 pm
Phoebe Herland on paragraph 19:

Using this data was a very good choice, it makes an important point. Without it the reader has no idea what the 113 gram means relative to the rest of the body.

January 5, 2010 2:28 pm
Max Piazza on paragraph 11:

What kind of objective scientist makes the claim that his data is so thorough that its nature is irrefutable?

It’s obvious that this scientist believed in the nature of his conclusion before the data was even collected – he uses some arbitrary volume data to argue the scientifically unsound conclusion that women excel in “fickleness” and “absence of thought and logic”.

January 5, 2010 2:28 pm
David-changsoo Kim on paragraph 6:

That’s quite a random conclusion based solely on the mass of the brain. It is true that men’s brains are composed of more mass, but this doesn’t necessarily conclude to them being more intelligent than women. “Intelligent” being a definition that was coined by humans themselves.

January 5, 2010 2:29 pm
segdirbdys & rotsoparual on paragraph 23:

I still think that Gould ought to have finished his own essay, instead of leaning on (god forbid) a female writer who pretends to be a man since smart women are two headed gorillas and should be disregarded as nonexistent. Isn’t Gould arguing that women are stupid? Or wait! Is it that Broca is wrong? Nobody knows! There is no thesis, no point, blah blah blah. And on top of that, Eliot seems to just conform and fade into the corner with the prejudices…

January 5, 2010 2:43 pm
laura r on paragraph 7:

No matter who goes out in the suit and tie and the hat and makes the money for the family, everyone has responsibilites and cares of tomorrow. I think men and women were too exclusive in the olden days, the too should’ve been more communicative and honest with each other.

January 5, 2010 2:47 pm
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